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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 November 2018

07 Nov 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Safeguarding Research Collaborations and Scientific Excellence

I have already taken an intervention; I want to make a little progress.

It is in that positive spirit that I lodged today’s Scottish Conservative amendment to the Government’s motion.

It is important to highlight that the Scottish further education sector and, indeed, many of our research institutions, do not exist in isolation. That is true in a UK sense, in a European sense and in a global sense. Again, it is important to get the balance right. My reading of the Government’s motion is that it lacks balance and nuance. Where possible, we have sought to strip some of the politics out of it. Although the concerns that many in the sector have outlined should give members cause to reflect, and they deserve careful consideration in the debate, it serves no one’s purpose to politicise the sector or those concerns, or in any way suggest that the sector overall is at risk.

I remain confident, for the reasons that are outlined in our amendment, that the UK Government is doing everything that it can to achieve an orderly and negotiated Brexit—a Brexit that will allow many of those relationships to continue and flourish, while at the same time enabling new partnerships and relationships to grow.

I particularly welcome the chancellor’s commitment to keep funding at existing levels up to 2020. I also welcome the new Government initiatives that have been announced since the British public voted to leave the EU, which some of my colleagues will talk more about. I believe that those initiatives will help to shore up the university sector and support new and innovative research across Scotland and the United Kingdom.

I am pleased that the UK will continue participating in the horizon programme. I am also pleased that the intention of the UK and the EU is that UK researchers and businesses will remain eligible to participate in horizon 2020 and that the position will remain unchanged for the duration of the programme. That has already been agreed as part of the financial settlement that was signed off by UK, EU and Commission negotiators in a draft withdrawal agreement and welcomed by the other 27 EU countries at the March European Council.

Moreover, the next horizon scheme could include the UK—that would be desirable—with the new funding scheme due to last from 2021 to 2027. As the EU’s research commissioner has indicated, the legal text supporting the programme

“is done in a way so that we can include UK in the future as a third country. The doors are open for discussion.”

I believe that that flexibility is to be welcomed, which is why we are pleased to support Labour’s amendment today. Scottish Conservatives will do all that we can to secure the UK’s positive future involvement in the horizon 2020 programme, just as we have urged the UK Government

“to ensure that the visa system is structured to attract students and staff of the highest calibre to work in UK universities and research centres.”

We believe that there is no impediment to that in post-Brexit Britain and will continue to strongly make that case, as outlined in our amendment.

Before concluding, I say to the Liberal Democrats that we will not be able to support their amendment at decision time. Although I commend them on their sometimes somewhat obsessive wish to hold another referendum, we believe that the matter has already been settled and that the best Brexit deal will be secured by ensuring co-operation across all the parties, with everyone doing what they can to support the Prime Minister as she seeks to build a consensus.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-14638, in the name of Richard Lochhead, on safeguarding Scotland’s international research collaborations ...
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Richard Lochhead) SNP
Yesterday, I visited Queen Margaret University, where I was given a tour by the wonderful principal, Petra Wend. She has been at the helm there for nine year...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
The member will be aware of the tremendous record of Scottish scientists, and that the Bank of England is going to honour a scientist on the new £50 note. Wi...
Richard Lochhead SNP
Of course—Professor Macleod would be an excellent candidate. Indeed, there are many candidates from Scotland who have given us an enormously successful track...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Does the minister think that his speech says that we are open for business or that we are focused entirely on the negatives?
Richard Lochhead SNP
I am saying that Scotland is open for business. I only wish that the Conservatives would say that, too. I support the work that our universities and college...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
I begin by focusing on the positives. It is easy in the current political climate to jump straight to the negatives and to challenge and dispute what other p...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Will the member taken intervention?
Oliver Mundell Con
Not right now, thank you. Indeed, I believe that, whatever our respective stances on Brexit, the vast majority of Scots want to see our university, research...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I wonder whether Mr Mundell can answer this question for me: does he believe that those laudable objectives, which I endorse, will be enhanced or diminished ...
Oliver Mundell Con
Challenges lie ahead—I will not stand here and deny that. The fundamental climate in which our country operates internationally will change. However, we have...
Gillian Martin SNP
Will the member take an invention?
Oliver Mundell Con
I have already taken an intervention; I want to make a little progress. It is in that positive spirit that I lodged today’s Scottish Conservative amendment ...
John Swinney SNP
Mr Mundell sets out an argument for continuing to make the case for an appropriate approach to immigration—I think that those were the words that he used. Ho...
Oliver Mundell Con
I go back to what I said at the start of my speech. Clearly, I adopt a much more positive approach. We have to work towards the system that we want to see. W...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I think that I am correct in saying that this is Mr Lochhead’s first debate in his new role as Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science, ...
Oliver Mundell Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Iain Gray Lab
I think that it is too late. The truth is that Brexit is already damaging science and research. A recent Nature magazine editorial says: “Regardless of whe...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I am sure that Mr Gray would recognise that, when the Presiding Officer dropped her bottle of water when he was speaking, she was merely testing one of Einst...
Gillian Martin SNP
Oliver Mundell said that people who talked about the matter in a negative way and were warning, as Tavish Scott is doing now, were politicking. Would Tavish ...
Tavish Scott LD
It is important to recognise that 1,000 of the staff at the Francis Crick Institute were surveyed. That is the reason why I want to talk about UK science. Fa...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Like colleagues, I welcome the Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science to his post. It is now almost 20 months since article 50 was tri...
John Swinney SNP
Does Mr Greer accept that there is a future threat from all of that? The Finance and Constitution Committee pointed out in its report today that population g...
Ross Greer Green
I am grateful to the Deputy First Minister for making that relevant point. I am sure that, like his colleagues, he heard the evidence that the Culture, Tour...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move on to the open debate with speeches of six minutes, please. 15:25
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
It is difficult to quantify exactly the impact of Brexit on scientific research in Scotland for a number of reasons. First, reports tend to concentrate on UK...
Oliver Mundell Con
I thank Gillian Martin for that comment, but she might want to reflect on the fact that those on the Conservative side of the chamber are looking way beyond ...
Gillian Martin SNP
I was happy to take the intervention, even though Mr Mundell never took any of mine. He may say that, but I cannot see many of the people from the scientific...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I start by welcoming the minister to his role—it is good to see him back in Government. This is an interesting debate and I am glad that he has chosen such a...
Maureen Watt (Aberdeen South and North Kincardine) (SNP) SNP
The principal of another university in the west of Scotland, Sir Anton Muscatelli of the University of Glasgow, said that a hard Brexit would represent “the...