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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 October 2018

02 Oct 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security Charter

As colleagues have done, I welcome this debate, which comes on the back of a lot of work on the part of all the members of the Social Security Committee. I particularly liked the fact that Pauline McNeill talked about all of us on the committee being co-producers of the social security system. Of course, my natural humility would prevent me from making that comment, but Pauline McNeill is 100 per cent right: the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 was the creation of all of us in this place and of those outside this place who contributed through the experience panels.

The social security charter goes beyond warm words, beyond listening to people for the sake of it and beyond the usual Government practice of implementing top-down ideas. This is a social security system that was created in conjunction with those who use it. The social security charter creates a binding contract between the system and the people of Scotland. This is not a framed document that will gather dust on the wall of the office of Social Security Scotland; it is a working, living document that builds the very foundations of our social security system. It sets out what people in Scotland can expect and are entitled to from our new system.

The 2018 act requires the development of a charter that reflects the eight social security principles that are set out in section 1 of the act. During the progression of the bill, ministers committed to producing the charter, working with people with experience of the social security system. The charter is intended to turn the principles into more focused aims, so that they are open to monitoring, reporting and scrutiny. More importantly, the Scottish Government has not only listened to but acted on the wishes of those with lived experience. The very naming of the charter was taken forward through the discussions of the core group, whose clear preference was for it to be called the Scottish social security charter.

The format of the charter had to be accessible, and it had to do what it set out to do. If there is one thing that I have learned during my time in local government and the Scottish Parliament, it is that, whether we are talking about the civil service or council officers, they all like to write long reports and papers. However, the charter is much more important than those documents. It has to be long, but it has to be short enough for people to understand. It has to be able to be grasped by individuals so that they know exactly what their rights are. All those things were brought up by the core group and show us, once again, how valuable the group’s input was.

The principles of the charter are important. As politicians, we love principles. Some of us have them and value them; we can only hope that others will catch up with us some day. The report’s overall finding was that while, for the core group, the separate principles had important aspects and meanings, there was also a significant overlap. The group came up with a list of 45 statements that explain what the principles mean in practice. The statements can be grouped into five themes, which are an important part of the debate. Number one was about clients. For the people who are involved, dignity should not be expressed just by words; first and foremost, clients should be the most important in the whole process. Number two is about staff behaviour and ensuring that those who deliver such services do so in a way that is helpful to those who claim. Number three is about ensuring that processes are open, transparent and not a hindrance during people’s time of need. Number four is about the social security system itself, and number five states that the wider culture of social security in Scotland should be positive.

For me, the most important aspect is the process of consultation and co-design that will help to build trust in the Scottish social security system. Recently, there has not been a lot of trust in the benefits system, given the UK Government’s so-called reforms. Building the system has been an important part of the exercise, and it is only right that people should feel trust between the system and themselves when they go through the process. The Equality and Human Rights Commission noted that the co-production model could help to develop positive working relationships between claimants and front-line staff. That is an important part of the debate, too.

The Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 sets out eight principles for Scottish social security. Although they are all valid, one of my particular favourites is that Scottish social security is

“an investment in the people of Scotland”

—which is to say that, during their times of difficulty and need, we are there to support them. The others are that

“social security is itself a human right and essential to the realisation of other human rights”

and that

“respect for the dignity of individuals is to be at the heart of the Scottish social security system”.

For too long, such principles have been just words and have not actually been used in other processes with the DWP. The Scottish social security system is to contribute to reducing poverty in Scotland, but it is also an important part of how we build a better future.

The Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 is one of the largest pieces of legislation that the Scottish Parliament has produced. It affects many people in our country, and can be used as a tool to bring people and families out of poverty. However, before we can do all that, we need to state the rules and regulations. People need to understand what their rights are, but that needs to be done in a way that they can appreciate. It is my belief that the Scottish social security charter does all those things. It gives hope to our fellow Scots that our Scottish Government listens to what they say and appreciates their contributions. As I have often said in this chamber, politics is about people. If we put them first, we can and will deliver the type of Scotland in which we all want to live.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-14160, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on building a social security system together and co-desig...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Last week, I stood before members in the chamber and outlined the great progress that has been made since the passage of the Scotland Act 2016, including on ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate and the journey that the Government and the Parliament have been on over the past two years with regard to social security. The fundame...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s comments but, primarily, I want to thank everyone who has been involved in the experience panels so far. Each of them, alon...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
There are, of course, a great many things that are deeply wrong with the UK’s current social security system. The real-terms value of many benefits has been ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
The Liberal Democrats welcome the debate, just as we welcome the next frontier of an agenda that has been driven, through consensus, by the Scottish Governme...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I am convener of the Social Security Committee in the Scottish Parliament. I succeeded Clare Adamson MSP in that role, and I pay tribute to her work as conve...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
There have been some positive contributions from members on all sides of the chamber and some good discussions about the feedback from the first steps of the...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I think that most of us in the chamber were here when the Rev Ian MacDonald spoke to us about vision. On a very reflective afternoon, I have reflected on how...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Like other members, I am proud to have been part of the process of co-designing Scotland’s new social security system, which is a powerful feature of our dev...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I pay tribute to all those who have got us to this stage in the journey to build a dignified social security system in Scotland, including the work on the ch...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
By 2021, Scotland will be responsible for making more social security payments in a week than we currently do in a year. That is a massive undertaking, which...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
Dignity, fairness and respect are important principles. We have used those words a lot and should make no apology for it. Keeping those important principles ...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The progress that is being made with the introduction of the new social security powers in Scotland has been commendable, and I consider the inclusive approa...
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
As members know, many constituents facing sometimes dire situations come to their MSPs for help with benefits issues. They do so, and will continue to do so,...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am delighted to take part in this debate on Scotland’s social security charter. With 30 per cent of working-age benefits being devolved to Holyrood, along ...
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
I am heartened to hear Alexander Stewart’s comments about the value of co-production. Will he recommend that approach to his colleagues in Westminster, so th...
Alexander Stewart Con
I am fully aware of what my colleagues in Westminster are trying to achieve. However, you make a valid comment. We can all work to try to achieve that. As I ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
That was an immaculate speech, Mr Stewart, apart from the fact that you used the term “you”. I will persist in correcting members on that. 16:32
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
As colleagues have done, I welcome this debate, which comes on the back of a lot of work on the part of all the members of the Social Security Committee. I p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. I call Mark Griffin to close the debate on behalf of the Labour Party. 16:37
Mark Griffin Lab
I am pleased that we have had a chance to support the progress that is being made in delivering Scotland’s new social security system. The charter and its c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Michelle Ballantyne to close for the Conservatives. 16:44
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I hope that, at decision time, we will have consensus on today’s motion and amendments, and I echo the cabinet secretary’s statement that all of us in Parlia...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I welcome the debate and the contributions that we have heard from members. It befits the charter’s importance that we have tried to achieve, and have succee...