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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 October 2018

02 Oct 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Social Security Charter
Allan, Dr Alasdair SNP Na h-Eileanan an Iar Watch on SPTV

As members know, many constituents facing sometimes dire situations come to their MSPs for help with benefits issues. They do so, and will continue to do so, regardless of whether the benefit in question is devolved or not.

With devolution of a number of benefits to the Scottish Parliament, however, it can be said that in at least in one limited respect the actual powers of Holyrood have caught up with the expectations that our constituents rightly have of Parliament.

I want to say something about how the benefits that are now devolved to us should operate, on which I hope that there might be greater than usual consensus, at least on some things. We should consider—as is being considered—what principles we are starting from and what lessons we can learn from the social security system as it has operated until now.

The principles are a good point to start from. They are born not merely of consultation of service users but, as others have mentioned, of genuine co-design. The principles are endorsed unanimously by Parliament and are set out in the 2018 act. Now we have a rare opportunity to try to get it right, at least for the 15 per cent or so of the social security system that is being devolved to Scotland’s control. That means translating the principles into a social security charter.

It is important to say that the charter is more than merely a general statement of good will. Not only will the Scottish Government and its agencies be measured against the charter, but organisations that believe that the system is failing will be able to use the charter to make that point.

The idea of social security as a rights-based system, founded in ideas of human dignity, is radical. Indeed, it is arguably a radical departure from the ideas of social security that have gone before, which come from a system that is historically derived ultimately from ideas such as “the deserving poor” and “the undeserving poor”. Writing a charter provides an opportunity for something better—something that is more clearly founded on ideas of human dignity and equality.

I want to mention one group that is of particular importance in my part of Scotland—namely, people who benefit from cold-weather payments. At least five or six of our starting principles could be invoked as reasons for raising the issue. I have raised the issue of cold-weather payments with the UK Government on numerous occasions in the past. Like other members from the west of Scotland, I recognise that the current threshold for cold-weather payments is very high—or, if we think of it strictly in temperature terms, it is very low. The temperature in an area has to fall below freezing for seven nights in a row before the payments are triggered. On the west coast of Scotland, that is something of a rarity, but areas like mine have some of the worst levels of fuel poverty in Europe.

There are many explanations for that to do with housing types and so on, and much work is being done by the Scottish Government to address the problems. However, another factor is wind chill. The weather that hits the west coast in the winter might not be literally freezing, but it certainly feels like it. I again make the argument that wind chill be taken into account when payments are calculated, and suggest that we all consider that argument seriously as we think about the principles for our new system. As many members have pointed out, we have to build a new social security system that is based on people’s lived experience of the existing one.

By 2021, there will have been an estimated £3.7 billion fall in payments in Scotland in the benefits that are administered at UK level. That is a huge slice out of the incomes of hundreds of thousands of Scots that no amount of mitigation by the Scottish Parliament can possibly make up for. As members will have seen from evidence that has been provided by Engender and other organisations, between 2010 and 2020, 86 per cent of those savings will come from women’s incomes. Those are huge issues for us to think about in considering how the devolved benefits relate to the benefits that still operate across the UK.

That may all be a debate for another day but, as MSPs, we will continue to get inquiries about both devolved and reserved benefits. I hope that our charter will ensure that the system in Scotland is at least accountable and listening, and that it is founded on meaningful guiding principles that, I hope, are shared across the chamber.

16:25  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-14160, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on building a social security system together and co-desig...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Security and Older People (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Last week, I stood before members in the chamber and outlined the great progress that has been made since the passage of the Scotland Act 2016, including on ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome the debate and the journey that the Government and the Parliament have been on over the past two years with regard to social security. The fundame...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s comments but, primarily, I want to thank everyone who has been involved in the experience panels so far. Each of them, alon...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
There are, of course, a great many things that are deeply wrong with the UK’s current social security system. The real-terms value of many benefits has been ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
The Liberal Democrats welcome the debate, just as we welcome the next frontier of an agenda that has been driven, through consensus, by the Scottish Governme...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I am convener of the Social Security Committee in the Scottish Parliament. I succeeded Clare Adamson MSP in that role, and I pay tribute to her work as conve...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
There have been some positive contributions from members on all sides of the chamber and some good discussions about the feedback from the first steps of the...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I think that most of us in the chamber were here when the Rev Ian MacDonald spoke to us about vision. On a very reflective afternoon, I have reflected on how...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Like other members, I am proud to have been part of the process of co-designing Scotland’s new social security system, which is a powerful feature of our dev...
Shona Robison (Dundee City East) (SNP) SNP
I pay tribute to all those who have got us to this stage in the journey to build a dignified social security system in Scotland, including the work on the ch...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
By 2021, Scotland will be responsible for making more social security payments in a week than we currently do in a year. That is a massive undertaking, which...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
Dignity, fairness and respect are important principles. We have used those words a lot and should make no apology for it. Keeping those important principles ...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The progress that is being made with the introduction of the new social security powers in Scotland has been commendable, and I consider the inclusive approa...
Dr Alasdair Allan (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) SNP
As members know, many constituents facing sometimes dire situations come to their MSPs for help with benefits issues. They do so, and will continue to do so,...
Alexander Stewart (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I am delighted to take part in this debate on Scotland’s social security charter. With 30 per cent of working-age benefits being devolved to Holyrood, along ...
The Minister for Older People and Equalities (Christina McKelvie) SNP
I am heartened to hear Alexander Stewart’s comments about the value of co-production. Will he recommend that approach to his colleagues in Westminster, so th...
Alexander Stewart Con
I am fully aware of what my colleagues in Westminster are trying to achieve. However, you make a valid comment. We can all work to try to achieve that. As I ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
That was an immaculate speech, Mr Stewart, apart from the fact that you used the term “you”. I will persist in correcting members on that. 16:32
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
As colleagues have done, I welcome this debate, which comes on the back of a lot of work on the part of all the members of the Social Security Committee. I p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to closing speeches. I call Mark Griffin to close the debate on behalf of the Labour Party. 16:37
Mark Griffin Lab
I am pleased that we have had a chance to support the progress that is being made in delivering Scotland’s new social security system. The charter and its c...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Michelle Ballantyne to close for the Conservatives. 16:44
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I hope that, at decision time, we will have consensus on today’s motion and amendments, and I echo the cabinet secretary’s statement that all of us in Parlia...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I welcome the debate and the contributions that we have heard from members. It befits the charter’s importance that we have tried to achieve, and have succee...