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Committee

Education and Skills Committee 19 September 2018

19 Sep 2018 · S5 · Education and Skills Committee
Item of business
2018 Exam Diet (Curriculum and Attainment Trends)
Professor Scott Watch on SPTV
The obvious answer to your last question is that it must. I am not sure that I would describe what is happening in S1 to S3 as chaos. I think that it is a more measured attempt by individual schools to meet the needs of their constituencies. The question is whether they have got it right. The schools at the extreme ends of the spectrum have probably not got it right. What worries me a little is that my current trawl around them all again, a year after the one that is reported in my written evidence, suggests that some of them are going further towards the ends of the spectrum. That is an issue. You asked about staffing. Although it was not the subject of a major question in my recent mini survey, I have some empirical evidence, because I asked my witnesses about it. I run another research team at the University of Dundee, which is looking into the Scottish attainment challenge and pupil equity funding, and we have asked a set of headteachers specifically about staffing. There is no doubt that some schools are experiencing difficulties in recruiting teachers in some areas and some of those areas are quite key to the curricular experiences of a number of young people. It is not simply science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects; we are all making a great fuss about STEM at the moment but the curriculum is much more than STEM. There are significant deficits in a number of subjects; there are shortages of home economists and computing teachers, for example. However, uptake of computing has developed by the best part of 50 per cent in S4, so the question is whether it is a chicken-or-egg situation. It is difficult to say; my suspicion is that in the case of computing, the shortages are caused more by the curriculum demands than by the lack of teachers. Does fragmentation affect the life chances and future pathways of young people? Yes, it does. Life chances are more affected by the narrowing of subject choice in S4. If you are brought down to six subjects—or, God help us, five; let us assume there are no fives, for the future wellbeing of Scottish children—you inevitably have to have a bet with yourself about column six and what will be beneficial to you. The real problem is not for able kids who pass all their subjects and move on, because they have made the right choices and they can progress. Able children almost always survive in a system, although I completely agree with Marina Shapira’s point that it is harder for children who live in a deprived area The able children who succeed go through. Average and able children, and particularly less able children, who pick up a clutch of six subjects and fail several of them, are then playing catch-up in a way that they were probably not in the situation before CFE. That bears on the original question as well. Those children have had to narrow their curriculum choices anyway—some of the key parts of their curriculum have not worked out, so they are into repeats and catch-up. If you go down from eight subjects to six, you should have 25 per cent more time available to you, which can be redeployed in pursuit of the six subjects that you are still studying. That should mean that the pass rate is higher—the conversion rate from enrolment to pass is higher—but it is not. It should mean that the passes in these subjects should be of a higher quality. There is some evidence that the passes are of a higher quality. That varies from subject to subject, but there is some clear evidence that the quality is improving and there is some clear evidence that the number of children getting at least one pass at that level is going up a bit, albeit more slowly, as I said earlier, so there are slightly contradictory flows there. The bottom line is what happens if you do not get it right at the first hurdle. I remember the national debate on education. It was a highly commendable process in which one of the things that people said was, “Get rid of the two-term dashes.” At that point, we had two two-term dashes. Well, folks—we now have three two-term dashes and children are indeed dashing. There is a big question about the worth of level 3 and level 4 qualifications—the worth to schools, to individual children, to families, and to employers. I suspect that those qualifications would be seen a little more positively by all those constituencies if they did not simply rely on teacher judgment. I remember the Deputy First Minister’s recent comments on teachers’ judgment and CFE levels and I entirely agree with him that there are issues about the quality of teacher judgment across the piece. I do not think that it is any different at level 3 and level 4. Teachers do the very best they can and they try very hard but they are not perfect people. Having an external agency that applies a rigid standard to qualifications assists things significantly.

In the same item of business

The Convener SNP
Agenda item 4 is an evidence-taking session on the curriculum and attainment trends in the 2018 exam diet. I am very pleased to welcome to the meeting Dr Ala...
Professor Jim Scott (University of Dundee)
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. It is something of a challenge to condense all that has happened in curriculum for excellence into about three minutes, b...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Professor Scott. I invite Dr Britton to make a contribution.
Dr Alan Britton (University of Glasgow)
I thank the committee for inviting me. I will try to offer my insights into the issues that are under consideration. My analysis mainly stems from a long-st...
Dr Marina Shapira (University of Stirling)
I want to talk about findings from our recently finished paper on the decline in the number of subject choices in S4. We have done other research on the narr...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Dr Shapira. Dr Brown, would you like to make an opening statement?
Dr Janet Brown (Scottish Qualifications Authority)
I have some very brief comments to explain the role of the Scottish Qualifications Authority. As the committee will know, we are required to develop, validat...
The Convener SNP
Thank you very much, Dr Brown. I invite our deputy convener to open the questioning. Committee members should indicate to me whether they would like to come...
Johann Lamont Lab
I thank all our witnesses for their remarks, which have been an important first step in our trying to understand what is happening. I do not think that, in t...
Professor Scott
Your perception of what is happening and what we have all tried to say is largely correct. There is a problem for the most able children. Neither Janet Brown...
Johann Lamont Lab
This is a personal obsession, because standard grade was introduced when I was teaching and the joy of having a certificated rather than non-certificated cla...
Professor Scott
One wants to encourage achievement. If we look at the leaver data from 2009-10, the number of children leaving school with no qualification is slowly creepin...
Dr Shapira
Our study is on the level of schools and not on the level of pupils. What we see at the moment is a link between the level of school area deprivation, the nu...
Johann Lamont Lab
Is it true that, in a more deprived area, a child who is very well supported by their family and is very able will not be able to compete to get into univers...
Dr Shapira
If their school uniformly offers five or six subjects, there is no way that the child would be—
Johann Lamont Lab
Is there any research that looks at the cohort of young people who are able to compete to get to university or college? With a cap, it follows logically that...
Dr Shapira
In our study, we are looking at the impact of the curriculum for excellence on subject choices, attainment and the transition into higher education. Research...
The Convener SNP
I want to move on. Members have been asked to address their questions to specific panel members. If other members of the panel would like to pick up any poin...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I will roll my questions into one to get through them as quickly as possible. I come at the issue from the simplistic point of view that our schools should m...
Professor Scott
The obvious answer to your last question is that it must. I am not sure that I would describe what is happening in S1 to S3 as chaos. I think that it is a m...
The Convener SNP
We move on to a question from Liz Smith.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Thank you, convener, and congratulations on your new role. I have a question for Dr Brown. In the submissions from Professor Scott and Dr Britton, they both...
Dr Brown
Part of the problem, as Jim Scott highlighted, is that the curriculum was for three to 18, and we need to think about that. The extension of broad general ed...
Liz Smith Con
Is that lack of connection more to do with what non-traditional, extra-vocational courses—which have been pretty successful, in many cases—are on offer? Is t...
Dr Brown
That is a very complicated question. Jim Scott pointed out that, if candidates go from taking eight subjects to six subjects, they should have more time. How...
Liz Smith Con
Previously, the committee has discussed national 4. I think that you are in the middle of a review of national 4. When will that review be finished?
Dr Brown
The review is being done by the curriculum and assessment board, which is due to meet in a couple of weeks. We have a Scottish education council meeting tomo...
Liz Smith Con
That recommendation will be made to the Scottish Government.
Dr Brown
Yes.
Professor Scott
I have a few associated points, if I can remember them all. I was part of the process with the 16 to 18 curriculum that the SQA carried through. As Janet Br...