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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 June 2018

07 Jun 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Hate Crime Legislation: Bracadale Review

I thank Lord Bracadale for his report. It is a balanced report and one that should be welcomed by all members across the chamber. I am particularly pleased that he has included both gender and age aggravations, although there will be debates to come on what further measures can be taken. In the time that I have, I will raise a few issues that remain outstanding from the report and some issues that require further discussion and debate.

One of those issues is the legal framework itself. Although it is right that the inquiry will look at the legal framework, consideration must be given to how that framework is used in practice. What does it mean for individual police officers? What does it mean for the procurator fiscal when the service is implementing legislation? What does it mean for individual lawyers or judges? What does it mean for any potential victims or, indeed, perpetrators? Such things need to be looked at much more in the round.

There is a feeling among certain sections of our communities that there are not equal protections in law for people of different communities, faiths and backgrounds. A close look at Lord Bracadale’s review and our legislation shows that, although we do have equal protections in law, perhaps we do not have equal actions in how the law is implemented for different communities. That needs to be looked at in much greater detail.

It will be no surprise to members that I raise the issue of Islamophobia. Much more work needs to be done around defining Islamophobia. I hoped that Lord Bracadale would consider that as part of the review, but perhaps it was outwith the remit. The First Minister wrote to me, saying that I would be put in touch with Lord Bracadale in advance of the publication of the review to discuss the definition of Islamophobia. Unfortunately, that did not happen, but I hope to have a conversation with Lord Bracadale and his team soon, to discuss the issues around the definition of Islamophobia. We need to define Islamophobia because Islamophobia is on the rise and we must recognise that for our communities.

There are four key reasons why we need a definition of Islamophobia. First, a failure to define Islamophobia risks allowing those with ill intent to define it for us. Secondly, in the valid debate about freedom of speech, which I will come back to in a moment, it is important that we define Islamophobia so that it cannot be mischaracterised as the restricting or questioning of theology. We should be allowed to question theology as well as different opinions and beliefs; what we should not be allowed to do is hate someone for having a belief.

Thirdly, it is important that we define Islamophobia so that there is a clear reference point for the legal system when considering any hate crime or cases of incitement. Fourthly, defining Islamophobia will help to demonstrate to our diverse communities that we, as lawmakers, recognise that Islamophobia exists, that it impacts on communities and that we take seriously the need to challenge it.

Fulton MacGregor spoke about freedom of speech, and a lot of people will see hate crime legislation as an attempt to curb freedom of speech. I believe in the protection of freedom of speech. What we are talking about is the freedom to offend, to abuse and to hold prejudiced views that impact on individuals’ life experiences, life chances and life outcomes. That cannot be allowed to happen.

We must get the balance right. Part of that is accepting that there will be a hard-core group of individuals who will always claim that any attempt to develop hate crime legislation is an attempt to curb freedom of speech, no matter what is agreed or how it is applied. Surely, the test must be whether it passes the test with the fair-minded majority. In order for that to happen, any definition of Islamophobia must not be an attempt to stifle debate or disagree on theology; it must be focused solely on prejudice and bias, and it must be focused on Muslims—the followers of Islam—and those who are misrecognised as Muslims rather than on Islam itself.

There must be a broad recognition that we still have a problem in our society with everyday sexism, everyday homophobia, everyday racism, everyday anti-Semitism and everyday Islamophobia. We must also recognise that we can have the greatest legal framework in the world but the vast majority of prejudiced views will not be criminal. Prejudice is not something that people can go to a police officer about or report, and they it is not something that they can get a judgment on; nevertheless, it still impacts on people’s life chances and opportunities. Prejudice impacts on their employability and their education, and there is a gendered nature to it. It impacts on access to public services and how people feel in their own communities.

I was hoping to speak in detail about the online experience and social media, but I will have to leave that for now. Social media was meant to open up the world but, in many cases, it is helping to spread hate and prejudice and is creating echo chambers for them.

All of us who believe in creating a society that is free of hate, division and abuse must see the fight against all forms of prejudice as a fight for all of us.

15:55  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Time is tight, so I am moving straight on. The next item of business is a debate on Lord Bracadale’s independent review of hate crime legislation. This is a ...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Tackling hate crime is central to building the Scotland that we all want to see—a Scotland free from hatred, prejudice, discrimination and bigotry, and a cou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Liam Kerr to open the debate for the Conservatives. You have up to eight minutes, please, Mr Kerr. 15:11
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am very pleased to open for the Scottish Conservatives in this debate without a motion on Lord Bracadale’s independent review of hate crime legislation. L...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry, Mr Kerr. Somebody’s phone is ringing, but they should not have it on—either in the gallery or in the chamber. On you go, Mr Kerr.
Liam Kerr Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. On that, a related matter that merits further discussion is how to approach the report’s recommendation 2, on updating languag...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
I point Liam Kerr to page 63 of Lord Bracadale’s report, where he says in paragraph 5.30 that “The repeal of section 6” of the 2012 act “has left a gap in...
Liam Kerr Con
We acknowledged that point about section 6 at the time, and we talked clearly about it in committee. The minister said clearly in the stage 3 debate on the O...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
No, I will not, I am afraid. That would be the third intervention from the Scottish National Party, including the phone that went off earlier. The reality i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I let you make up your time. Technically, a telephone ringing might be an interruption, but it is not an intervention, Mr Kerr. I know that you are a man who...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Lord Bracadale—not just for his excellent report but for how he conducted his inquiries in compiling it. When I became Labour’s spokesperson...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call John Finnie to open for the Greens. As you have split your time, you have three minutes, Mr Finnie. 15:27
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I, too, welcome the report. I also welcome the briefings, one of which, from the Law Society of Scotland, says that hate crime can and does affect us all. I ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Well done, Mr Finnie, you kept to three minutes. 15:30
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
As other members have done, I pay tribute to Lord Bracadale for the valuable work that he and his small team have carried out. None of us underestimates the ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
In an ideal world, there should be no need for hate crime legislation, but we all know that this is not an ideal world, and Lord Bracadale’s “Independent Rev...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I join colleagues in thanking Lord Bracadale for putting together his review of hate crime legislation. In a civilised society, hate crime of any kind—whethe...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Maurice Corry Con
I am sorry, but I am in my last minute. The minister even went as far as to dismiss the statement of the Law Society of Scotland by saying: “I do not thin...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I remind the chamber that I am the parliamentary liaison officer to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice. I welcome the report and thank Lord Bracadale for car...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I am going to come to Liam Kerr’s comments. When the Justice Committee scrutinised the bill that repealed the 2012 act, a majority of witnesses agreed with ...
Liam Kerr Con
Fulton MacGregor and his colleagues have made some pretty robust—and now incorrect—comments about the Conservatives behaving irresponsibly during the repeal ...
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I do not think that Liam Kerr heard what I just said. I made it quite clear in my speeches during stage 1 and stage 3 that there were issues with section 1—I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, Mr MacGregor.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I will just finish this point. Although the context is different, that reminded me of the evidence-gathering sessions on the bill that repealed the 2012 act...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, please.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
One camp agreed with the verdict and one did not. That case highlights the need for clearly defined hate crime legislation. 15:49
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Lord Bracadale for his report. It is a balanced report and one that should be welcomed by all members across the chamber. I am particularly pleased t...