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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 07 June 2018

07 Jun 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Hate Crime Legislation: Bracadale Review
MacGregor, Fulton SNP Coatbridge and Chryston Watch on SPTV

I do not think that Liam Kerr heard what I just said. I made it quite clear in my speeches during stage 1 and stage 3 that there were issues with section 1—I think that everybody accepted that—but that, on balance, I felt that it should be kept. However, with regard to section 6, Liam Kerr has said today that there could be a gap in the law.

I must move on, as I have only minute left.

Just a few months ago, members called on the Scottish Government to recognise an increase in anti-Catholicism in Scotland, citing shocking statistics that showed a disproportionate number of incidents. If we act on the report’s recommendation, the offence of stirring up hatred that is connected to religion will be set out in the act, reintroduced and extended.

It is also clear that there is underreporting of hate crime, so we might consider that further improvements should be made in the responses of the police, the prosecutors and the courts. I am the convener of the cross-party group on racial equality, which has paid the issue a lot of attention, including with presentations from the police.

It is essential that a consistent process be adopted across Government and that all criminal justice partners work together to drive up the reporting of all hate crimes, to give victims more confidence and to remove inconsistencies in the recognition and prosecution of different crimes.

That brings me to a recent case that involved one of my constituents, who is the man who was found guilty of a hate crime for filming a dog’s Nazi salute. The defender said that it was intended to be a joke. As the constituency MSP, I received representations from both sides of the argument, who made their cases strongly and passionately. In many ways, although clearly different—

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Time is tight, so I am moving straight on. The next item of business is a debate on Lord Bracadale’s independent review of hate crime legislation. This is a ...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Tackling hate crime is central to building the Scotland that we all want to see—a Scotland free from hatred, prejudice, discrimination and bigotry, and a cou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Liam Kerr to open the debate for the Conservatives. You have up to eight minutes, please, Mr Kerr. 15:11
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am very pleased to open for the Scottish Conservatives in this debate without a motion on Lord Bracadale’s independent review of hate crime legislation. L...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry, Mr Kerr. Somebody’s phone is ringing, but they should not have it on—either in the gallery or in the chamber. On you go, Mr Kerr.
Liam Kerr Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. On that, a related matter that merits further discussion is how to approach the report’s recommendation 2, on updating languag...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
I point Liam Kerr to page 63 of Lord Bracadale’s report, where he says in paragraph 5.30 that “The repeal of section 6” of the 2012 act “has left a gap in...
Liam Kerr Con
We acknowledged that point about section 6 at the time, and we talked clearly about it in committee. The minister said clearly in the stage 3 debate on the O...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Liam Kerr Con
No, I will not, I am afraid. That would be the third intervention from the Scottish National Party, including the phone that went off earlier. The reality i...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I let you make up your time. Technically, a telephone ringing might be an interruption, but it is not an intervention, Mr Kerr. I know that you are a man who...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Lord Bracadale—not just for his excellent report but for how he conducted his inquiries in compiling it. When I became Labour’s spokesperson...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call John Finnie to open for the Greens. As you have split your time, you have three minutes, Mr Finnie. 15:27
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I, too, welcome the report. I also welcome the briefings, one of which, from the Law Society of Scotland, says that hate crime can and does affect us all. I ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Well done, Mr Finnie, you kept to three minutes. 15:30
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
As other members have done, I pay tribute to Lord Bracadale for the valuable work that he and his small team have carried out. None of us underestimates the ...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
In an ideal world, there should be no need for hate crime legislation, but we all know that this is not an ideal world, and Lord Bracadale’s “Independent Rev...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I join colleagues in thanking Lord Bracadale for putting together his review of hate crime legislation. In a civilised society, hate crime of any kind—whethe...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Maurice Corry Con
I am sorry, but I am in my last minute. The minister even went as far as to dismiss the statement of the Law Society of Scotland by saying: “I do not thin...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I remind the chamber that I am the parliamentary liaison officer to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice. I welcome the report and thank Lord Bracadale for car...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I am going to come to Liam Kerr’s comments. When the Justice Committee scrutinised the bill that repealed the 2012 act, a majority of witnesses agreed with ...
Liam Kerr Con
Fulton MacGregor and his colleagues have made some pretty robust—and now incorrect—comments about the Conservatives behaving irresponsibly during the repeal ...
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I do not think that Liam Kerr heard what I just said. I made it quite clear in my speeches during stage 1 and stage 3 that there were issues with section 1—I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, Mr MacGregor.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I will just finish this point. Although the context is different, that reminded me of the evidence-gathering sessions on the bill that repealed the 2012 act...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, please.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
One camp agreed with the verdict and one did not. That case highlights the need for clearly defined hate crime legislation. 15:49
Anas Sarwar (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Lord Bracadale for his report. It is a balanced report and one that should be welcomed by all members across the chamber. I am particularly pleased t...