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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 May 2018

23 May 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Housing

I thank members for their speeches so far and remind everyone that I was a councillor at the City of Edinburgh Council for 12 years. For all of that period, I chaired the council’s governance, risk and best value committee, and I spent many hours listening to evidence about what had gone wrong during Edinburgh’s tenement repair scandal. We need to learn lessons from that scandal, not just in Edinburgh but across Scotland.

Edinburgh, like other cities, has many tenements. Many of them are ageing and require maintenance, and many require safety measures to ensure the safety not just of their owners but of those who walk on the pavements. When things go wrong, it affects the wider community. As Graham Simpson mentioned, RICS has mooted the idea of there being regular health checks on buildings. We would welcome that, but it would be a challenge. Andy Wightman was right: up until the mid-1980s, every tenement in Edinburgh was checked regularly and detailed records were kept.

The issue is then what happens if the tenement is not being maintained correctly. We can have all the good wishes and aspire to tenements being kept in the right order but, unless local authorities are willing to use the correct sanctions and enforcement, we will simply end up with lots of notices being put on buildings but no enforcement or action being taken. It is not easy to enforce such measures in places such as Edinburgh, where lots of landlords do not live in their properties. Many people—particularly Adam Tomkins and Gordon Lindhurst—know much more about tenement law than I do. It is a complex area, but we need to consider new legislation, because the law is, at best, unclear.

That takes me to my next point, which is that factoring can help. The first flat that I bought in Edinburgh was a modern flat, and a factor was imposed on us. That actually worked well—the flat was well looked after and was clean and tidy, at least outside if not inside. However, that was expensive. There was no choice with our factor—it was simply imposed on us through the title deeds, but that has not been the tradition, particularly in Edinburgh. Many flats in Edinburgh do not have factors, and I sure that all Lothian and Edinburgh MSPs will have had letters from constituents—perhaps older people—who are trying to get the stairway of their flats cleaned but are not able to do that because other people will not.

Factoring is the way forward but, as I have said, the right sanctions—and the enforcement of those sanctions—must lie behind that. People must also have a choice about who their factor is, and individual flat owners must have a say in how the arrangement works rather than someone else imposing that on them.

I, too, welcome the debate and the consensus in the chamber on these issues. However, before we pat ourselves on our backs too much, I should make it clear that, although analysing the difficulties is easy, coming up with the solutions may be a lot harder.

16:25  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-12342, in the name of Graham Simpson, on housing. 15:52
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
It would have been easy to lodge a motion on housing attacking sluggish house building under the Scottish National Party. A sector that is flatlining and an ...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I agree with Graham Simpson’s point that factors need to behave properly, but does he agree that it is useful to have a factor or an organisation looking aft...
Graham Simpson Con
Yes. I do not disagree with that at all, but we need to ensure that they operate properly. I do not want to give the impression that we are talking about an...
The Minister for Local Government and Housing (Kevin Stewart) SNP
I am pleased to have the opportunity to welcome and speak in this debate that Graham Simpson has brought forward on the important issue of tenement property ...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Should the proposals coming forth from that cross-party working group include one on the need for primary legislation, will the Government commit to bringing...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Yes. We are committed to keeping our policy frameworks and legislation under review to ensure that everyone lives in a good-quality home. In terms of existi...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Can the minister clarify which local authorities have used and which have not used the legislation that he mentioned?
Kevin Stewart SNP
I do not have that answer for Mr Johnson off the top of my head, but I am more than willing to provide him with that information. Glasgow City Council is us...
Pauline McNeill (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the debate on Graham Simpson’s motion. Tenement property is a complex subject, on which the Parliament has made significant progress, but the law ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Andy Wightman, who has up to four minutes. 16:12
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
I thank Graham Simpson for using Conservative Party business time to propose a motion on a topic that is designed to achieve broad agreement across the chamb...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Four minutes.
Andy Wightman Green
Thank you. Much of the flatted property in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Dundee was built more than a century ago. With proper refurbishment and mainte...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
It is always hard to follow Andy Wightman in a debate such as this. I am very much one of those members of the Scottish Parliament who learns at the knee of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I ask everyone to be quiet. I think that Mr Wightman would like to hear this. Laughter.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Despite their outburst, I am grateful to Conservative members for bringing today’s motion before us. Housing is important. I am also gratified to hear that t...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I thank members for their speeches so far and remind everyone that I was a councillor at the City of Edinburgh Council for 12 years. For all of that period, ...
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
I, too, very much welcome the use of this time for this important debate, which builds on the momentum of the Tenements (Scotland) Act 2004, the Housing (Sco...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
I call Daniel Johnson, to be followed by Gordon Lindhurst. 16:29
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
It is with huge pleasure that I stand to speak in this debate after Graham Simpson, Ben Macpherson and Andy Wightman. I am sure that others from the working ...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call Richard Lyle, to be followed by Gordon Lindhurst.
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
Oh!
The Presiding Officer NPA
Did I get that the wrong way round? Okay—I call Gordon Lindhurst, to be followed by Richard Lyle.
Richard Lyle SNP
I am ready, Presiding Officer.
The Presiding Officer NPA
Richard Lyle is ready, so we will let him speak. Laughter. 16:34
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I welcome the opportunity to contribute to a debate on an issue with which I am very familiar, having served as a councillor on...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I thank Mr Lyle for being ready to speak. Gordon Lindhurst is next. 16:38
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
It is, indeed, a delight to be allowed an opportunity to speak in the debate. I am not sure whether I can match Richard Lyle’s speech; I certainly cannot mat...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
As others have said, there is a lot in the Conservative motion that I can agree with—not least the basic statement of the fact that we have a problem with co...