Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 23 May 2018
23 May 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (Subject Choices)
I rise to speak somewhat dismayed at some of the arguments that are being used in the chamber this afternoon. I served on the Education and Culture Committee in session 4 of the Parliament, and much of what has been discussed today was raised in evidence at that time. In 2012, in response to questions from Liz Smith, Ken Muir of Education Scotland said:
“The expectation is that youngsters will, in the main, experience a broad general education up to the end of S3—or, at least, will have an opportunity to receive the experiences and outcomes up to the third curriculum level.” —[Official Report, Education and Culture Committee, 26 June 2012; c 1251.]
Also in 2012, Terry Lanagan of the Association of Directors of Education in Scotland said:
“The new system is not about going for eight or nine qualifications in one year—it is a continuum of learning. Those are not just words: the new qualifications will—and do—build on experiences and outcomes in broad general education.”
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-12358, in the name of Liz Smith, on education: subject choices.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Few decisions are more important to any young person at school than those that they make about subject choices. What they decide defines their future career....
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call John Swinney to speak to and move amendment S5M-12358.4. 14:48
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney)
SNP
I welcome this debate and I want to be as helpful as I can in discussing the substantive issues that Liz Smith raises. The reason for that is that this whole...
Liz Smith
Con
If that is correct, there ought to be a good progression into S4. However, at the moment, pupils are doing a considerable number of subjects in breadth in S1...
John Swinney
SNP
That brings me on to the other substantive point that I want to make. The focus on the breadth of learning throughout primary school and the first years of s...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con)
Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
John Swinney
SNP
If Mr Mundell will forgive me, I will not take an intervention. I have quite a lot of ground to cover. That may well mean that learners take fewer subjects ...
Liz Smith
Con
Is the cabinet secretary satisfied that those students in S4 are getting a fair deal when it comes to subject choice?
John Swinney
SNP
That will be a judgment that is arrived at in individual schools on the basis of the curriculum model that they want to take forward, and that is the policy ...
Oliver Mundell
Con
At a basic level, does the cabinet secretary accept that, if a pupil drops a subject because they are unable to take it in S4, they will be less likely to ta...
John Swinney
SNP
Not necessarily, because young people will have established stronger foundations in a higher and more demanding broad general education than would have been ...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney
SNP
I will have to make some more progress.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I can give you the time back, cabinet secretary.
John Swinney
SNP
I give way to Jenny Marra.
Jenny Marra
Lab
The cabinet secretary suggested that decisions about course choice are available on a school-by-school basis, but Dundee City Council’s curriculum guidelines...
John Swinney
SNP
That gets us to the nub of the reform agenda that I am interested in taking forward. I am glad that Ms Marra is a supporter of that agenda. I believe that th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Thank you very much. I have to say that I am running out of spare time, but I thought that it was important to allow interventions that were direct questions...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I have not said what you are doing yet. I call Iain Gray to speak to and move amendment S5M-12358.1—just in case you had forgotten, Mr Gray. 14:57
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I had not forgotten, and I rise to move the amendment in my name. This is an important issue, but it is not a new one. The nar...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
You must conclude with this sentence.
Iain Gray
Lab
Parents feel that pupils from more affluent communities are being offered more choice and more chances, which can only exacerbate the attainment gap. It is n...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I am sorry: in these short debates, time is very tight. There will now be a tight four minutes for all speeches. 15:02
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
The need to ensure that Scotland’s schools provide an inclusive learning environment that enables all young people to excel is an obvious point of consensus,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I will rescue you there. It is time to sit down. 15:06
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
The debate that Liz Smith has brought is about subject choice. In some ways, I speak more as a father than I do as an MSP on the issue, because my oldest chi...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
First, I welcome Liz Smith’s remarks. She outlined in great detail why this debate is an important one. On these benches, we have sought answers from the Sc...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)
SNP
I rise to speak somewhat dismayed at some of the arguments that are being used in the chamber this afternoon. I served on the Education and Culture Committee...