Holyrood, made browsable

Hansard

Every contribution to the Official Report — chamber and committee — searchable in one place. Pulled from data.parliament.scot, indexed for full-text search, linked through to every MSP.

129
Current MSPs
415
MSPs ever elected
13
Parties on record
2,355,091
Hansard contributions
1999–2026
Coverage span
Official Report

Search Hansard contributions

Clear
Showing 0 of 2,355,091 contributions in session S6, 17 Apr 2026 – 17 May 2026. Latest 30 days: 148. Coverage: 12 May 1999 — 14 May 2026.

No contributions match those filters.

← Back to list
Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 23 May 2018

23 May 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education (Subject Choices)
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

Few decisions are more important to any young person at school than those that they make about subject choices. What they decide defines their future career. That is why the Scottish Conservatives, like many parents, teachers and young people across Scotland, have become increasingly concerned about the evidence that points to the fact that the range of choices at secondary 4 level in many schools is now restricted. That impacts most on S4 and S5 pupils who will leave school with only national 4 or national 5 qualifications, but it also impacts on the choice opportunities that young people have in higher and advanced higher courses in S5 and S6, with the obvious implications for further entry later on.

I want to set out the evidence, place that evidence in the context of what was supposed to happen in curriculum for excellence, and put on the table proposals on what has to happen to address the problem. In setting out the evidence, I will draw on the work of Professor Jim Scott, the evidence that was presented to the Education and Skills Committee in 2016-17 by teachers, local authorities and the education agencies, the work of Glasgow Caledonian University and Reform Scotland, the Scottish Government’s own research in its annual statistical reports, and various articles in the media over the past two years. All of them without exception point to the increasing movement from eight to six subjects in S4. In 2013, 28 per cent of schools had moved to six subjects; in 2016, the figure was 47 per cent. Professor Scott’s latest research shows that the figure is now 57 per cent.

Professor Scott’s evidence goes on to show that there has been a corresponding decline in S4 enrolments and S4 attainment in Scottish Qualifications Authority levels 3 to 5. He acknowledges that the SQA has made 3,750 more awards per year as a result of diversifying the type of certificate course available, but he points to the loss of no fewer than 143,735 annual course passes as a result of the decline in choice from eight to six subjects.

The real issue is for S4 pupils who are entered for national 4 and national 5 courses and who want to leave school at the end of fourth year or fifth year, because they will leave school with fewer qualifications than would otherwise have been the case.

To place all that in context, there is a very important debate to be had about the delivery of curriculum for excellence. There was the relatively powerful argument that schools should be more free to develop their own curriculum so that it best suited the needs of their pupils, and there was the argument that learning in depth is more important than learning in breadth, and that it is not fair to contrast what is happening now with curriculum for excellence with what went before. I can accept some of those arguments, but I cannot accept—nor can young people and parents accept—what has happened in practice, perhaps with unintended consequences. There has been the narrowing of subject choice not just in S4 but in S5 and S6, which has had a particularly marked effect on many young people who are attending schools in disadvantaged communities. We should all be concerned about that with respect to widening access.

In March 2017, Glasgow Caledonian University’s research concluded that

“many young people struggle to get their preferred choice in S5 and S6”

and that many young people do not get the opportunity to take a higher course across a two-year period, which gives better scope for articulation.

Let me deal with the arguments that I am sure that the Scottish Government will put to us. The line that the First Minister has given us when she has been challenged on the issue is that more young people than ever before are achieving higher and advanced higher passes. No one is disputing that, and that is good, but that must not become a quantitative argument. If we drill down, we see that there are many different perspectives that tell us that, in qualitative terms, that is not quite the picture.

For example, there has been a very significant squeeze on modern languages—a key skill that most employers value very highly—and there is also evidence that there is a squeeze on science, technology, engineering and mathematics subjects, which are also key skills that are highly valued by employers. The fall in subject choice from eight to six subjects inevitably makes it more difficult for young people to have the best possible combinations, a point noted by Universities Scotland when it provided its evidence to the Education and Skills Committee last year.

Secondly, we are told that we must not look at the individual years but look at the senior phase as a three-year progression. I could accept that in theory, but, in practice, the narrowing of subject choice in S4 is beginning to have a similar effect on S5 and S6. If there was a properly thought-out progression, we would not see the reluctance to offer young people the chance to sit highers across two academic years, we would not see the two-term dash to higher and we would not see the very serious situation affecting the advanced higher. I raise the point about the advanced higher not just because it is seen as Scotland’s most prestigious exam, is envied by many educationalists in other jurisdictions and is more in tune with the founding principles of curriculum for excellence than any other exam, but because it draws into question the purpose of the S6 year. How ironic is it that the Russell Group of universities south of the border are stronger advocates of the advanced higher than many people in Scotland?

On the Conservatives’ side of the chamber, we believe that that is a very important question to answer, not least because more pupils want to stay on at school until they are 18 and therefore ought to be able to access advanced higher as they want. However, that is not the case just now, most especially in disadvantaged communities. As the widening access debate progresses, more and more people believe that the focus of that policy has to be on schools, including the early years, and not so much on artificial targets within colleges and universities. Widening the availability of advanced higher must surely be part of the focus, so that we do not end up with statistics that show that just two secondary schools in disadvantaged areas offer more than 12 advanced highers whereas 27 per cent of schools in more affluent areas do that. I know that there are some successful developments in hubs arranged by the universities of Glasgow, Dundee and Aberdeen and that they are all working to make advanced highers more available, but that does not help many young people in Scotland, particularly those who are unable to travel to the hubs.

So, what must be done? First, it is imperative that we address the S1 to S4 curriculum. We have ended up with no clear strategy or vision for the middle years, which means that, when it comes to S4, we have to condition young people to have far fewer subjects—we have lost that articulation with the early years. A key part of the situation is teacher numbers. We cannot hope to offer effective subject choice if we have 3,400 fewer teachers in the system than we did when the Scottish National Party came to power, nor can we hope to improve things if there is a serious shortage in core subjects such as maths and an increasing trend for experienced teachers to leave the profession.

We are addressing in the debate a hugely significant and important issue for many children across Scotland, because they are not getting a fair choice at the moment; hence the reason I move the motion in my name.

I move,

That the Parliament notes with concern evidence that shows that, for a substantial number of schools across Scotland, subject choice for S4 pupils has been reduced; believes that this is an unintended consequence of the current structure of Curriculum for Excellence, which also has implications for subject choice in S5 and S6; further believes that this situation is exacerbated by teacher shortages in key subjects, and calls for the Scottish Government to work with local authorities to urgently ensure that all schools adhere to the commitment to provide young people and parents with full details about subject choice options.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-12358, in the name of Liz Smith, on education: subject choices.
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Few decisions are more important to any young person at school than those that they make about subject choices. What they decide defines their future career....
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call John Swinney to speak to and move amendment S5M-12358.4. 14:48
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I welcome this debate and I want to be as helpful as I can in discussing the substantive issues that Liz Smith raises. The reason for that is that this whole...
Liz Smith Con
If that is correct, there ought to be a good progression into S4. However, at the moment, pupils are doing a considerable number of subjects in breadth in S1...
John Swinney SNP
That brings me on to the other substantive point that I want to make. The focus on the breadth of learning throughout primary school and the first years of s...
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
John Swinney SNP
If Mr Mundell will forgive me, I will not take an intervention. I have quite a lot of ground to cover. That may well mean that learners take fewer subjects ...
Liz Smith Con
Is the cabinet secretary satisfied that those students in S4 are getting a fair deal when it comes to subject choice?
John Swinney SNP
That will be a judgment that is arrived at in individual schools on the basis of the curriculum model that they want to take forward, and that is the policy ...
Oliver Mundell Con
At a basic level, does the cabinet secretary accept that, if a pupil drops a subject because they are unable to take it in S4, they will be less likely to ta...
John Swinney SNP
Not necessarily, because young people will have established stronger foundations in a higher and more demanding broad general education than would have been ...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
John Swinney SNP
I will have to make some more progress.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you the time back, cabinet secretary.
John Swinney SNP
I give way to Jenny Marra.
Jenny Marra Lab
The cabinet secretary suggested that decisions about course choice are available on a school-by-school basis, but Dundee City Council’s curriculum guidelines...
John Swinney SNP
That gets us to the nub of the reform agenda that I am interested in taking forward. I am glad that Ms Marra is a supporter of that agenda. I believe that th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you very much. I have to say that I am running out of spare time, but I thought that it was important to allow interventions that were direct questions...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Thank you very much, Presiding Officer—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have not said what you are doing yet. I call Iain Gray to speak to and move amendment S5M-12358.1—just in case you had forgotten, Mr Gray. 14:57
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I had not forgotten, and I rise to move the amendment in my name. This is an important issue, but it is not a new one. The nar...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must conclude with this sentence.
Iain Gray Lab
Parents feel that pupils from more affluent communities are being offered more choice and more chances, which can only exacerbate the attainment gap. It is n...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry: in these short debates, time is very tight. There will now be a tight four minutes for all speeches. 15:02
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
The need to ensure that Scotland’s schools provide an inclusive learning environment that enables all young people to excel is an obvious point of consensus,...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I will rescue you there. It is time to sit down. 15:06
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
The debate that Liz Smith has brought is about subject choice. In some ways, I speak more as a father than I do as an MSP on the issue, because my oldest chi...
Jamie Halcro Johnston (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
First, I welcome Liz Smith’s remarks. She outlined in great detail why this debate is an important one. On these benches, we have sought answers from the Sc...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
I rise to speak somewhat dismayed at some of the arguments that are being used in the chamber this afternoon. I served on the Education and Culture Committee...