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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 26 April 2018

26 Apr 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Civil Litigation (Expenses and Group Proceedings) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Johnson, Daniel Lab Edinburgh Southern Watch on SPTV

I will speak to amendments 1 to 4 in my name and against Margaret Mitchell’s amendment 2A.

I apologise in advance, Presiding Officer, as these are complex amendments and it may take some time to rehearse the arguments and issues. I also declare an interest, as a proud trade unionist and a member of the Community trade union and the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers. I have worked on the amendments with the Scottish Trades Union Congress and the lawyers who work with it on personal injury cases.

Ultimately, the decisions that the Parliament makes on the bill are around access to justice. For each amendment, we should set ourselves one clear test as we vote—will voting for the amendment increase access to justice or reduce it? That is precisely what lies at the heart of Sheriff Principal Taylor’s proposals and at the heart of the bill. Furthermore, we must ask ourselves whether the amendment makes it more or less likely that a claimant who has been wronged will get the justice that they deserve. Importantly, we must also ask whether, when damages are awarded, that makes it more or less likely that a claimant will get the true value of their claim.

At stage 2, the Justice Committee decided to agree to amendments from Margaret Mitchell. My amendments today seek to reverse that decision and I would like to explain why. The issue at hand is whether success fee agreements, which are also known as damages-based agreements and best known as no-win, no-fee agreements, are allowed to include any proportion of future losses in the fee for the lawyer.

On the face of it, as I am sure that Margaret Mitchell will argue, that seems unfair. The argument goes that lawyers should not receive a single penny of the damages that are awarded for the costs of a catastrophic injury. However, we must return to that test—does that increase access to justice? Sheriff Principal Taylor, the architect of the legislation as the author of the report that led to the bill, wrote to the committee—in a surprising and extraordinary move in many ways—and set out in the starkest possible terms his view of the bill as it was amended at stage 2. He wrote that the bill, as amended, posed

“an existential threat”

to damages-based agreements

“being offered in higher value cases in Scotland”.

In other words, if we ring fence future losses, lawyers are simply not incentivised to offer no-win, no-fee agreements for those higher-value cases.

Sheriff Principal Taylor’s report had to strike a carefully constructed balance to ensure that lawyers would actually offer no-win, no-fee agreements to those who have suffered catastrophic injuries. To do that, he allowed lawyers to include a small—and, importantly, capped—percentage of damages. That means that lawyers will be incentivised not just to pursue catastrophic cases but to ensure that they are settled for the maximum possible value—in other words, the interests of the client and the lawyer are perfectly aligned.

What if we do not reverse the stage 2 amendments? What would the impact be? Sheriff Principal Taylor was very clear:

“The likely outcome is that cases will either not be raised at all or will settle for considerably less than the true value of the claim.”

That is a direct quotation. Furthermore, the Law Society of Scotland agrees. It stated:

“To ring-fence future losses from the calculation of a success fee may mean that success fee agreements will not be offered in the higher value cases, as it is simply not economic to do so and the public at large will be the poorer.”

The reason that we can be so sure about this is that a recent change along these lines in England and Wales has led to exactly the situation that Sheriff Principal Taylor and the Law Society outlined. No-win, no-fee agreements are simply not being used to fund personal injury actions and thus access to justice has been greatly diminished.

Furthermore, ring fencing future losses could lead to past losses and future losses being treated differently in the courts, leading to two unintended consequences. Those with existing losses—losses already incurred—would have more opportunity to bring forward litigation than those with future losses, due to the greater availability of success fee agreements. That feels inconsistent and unfair. It could also incentivise the delaying of action so that past losses are incurred rather than being future losses at the point that court action takes place.

I turn to Margaret Mitchell’s amendment 2A. Firstly, and fundamentally, it is based on an assumption that the court fees that are awarded to lawyers are sufficient. At present, the fees that lawyers receive for cases are simply not enough to cover their costs. If they were, no one would be going down the current damages-based agreement route. However, they are doing so in large numbers, on the basis of taking 20 to 35 per cent cuts of the total damages amount.

15:00  

The bill gives ministers the ability to regulate the allowable deductions that lawyers can make as part of their agreements. Sheriff Principal Taylor recommended a sliding scale—from 20 per cent on the first £100,000, down to 2.5 per cent on damages over £500,000. That represents a reduction on the current situation. Crucially, ministers can alter that scale by regulation, so that if it comes to pass that there are unintended consequences or that lawyers are taking disproportionate sums from awards, it can be modified.

Most critically, I believe that Margaret Mitchell’s amendment 2A makes a crucial error in its drafting, in that it does not allow for that flexibility. Instead, it hard-codes figures on proportion and value into the bill, removing the flexibility and the ability for different decisions to be made in the future.

Unfortunately, the figures that Margaret Mitchell has chosen come not from Taylor’s carefully balanced proposals but from the insurance industry’s briefing papers. While I perfectly understand the insurance industry’s right to pursue its interests, we must take a much broader view on the interests of the legislation. Clearly, it is in the insurance industry’s interest to reduce the number of cases brought and the value of the final claims settled, rather than to increase those things. It thus fails the critical test that I set out at the beginning.

This group of amendments does not represent a minor point in the bill. Taylor—the architect of the legislation—said that, if we do not reverse the amendments that were made at stage 2 by agreeing to amendments 1 to 4, the bill will

“make access to justice less accessible to the man in the street than if I had not reported”.

That is a stark warning indeed. I urge members to vote for amendments 1 to 4 in my name, and to vote against amendment 2A.

I move amendment 1.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is consideration of stage 3 amendments to the Civil Litigation (Expenses and Group Proceedings) (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with am...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call group 1. Amendment 34, in the name of Margaret Mitchell, is the only amendment in the group.
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
For an ordinary member of the public, understanding civil litigation can be a complex and confusing process. The Civil Litigation (Expenses and Group Proceed...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I share many of Margaret Mitchell’s concerns, and it is important to note her comment on the proposals in the bill being about increasing access to justice. ...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
Like Daniel Johnson, I think that Margaret Mitchell very fairly identified an issue. Access to justice is predicated on there being a level of transparency a...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
I refer members to my entry in the register of interests. Members will note that I am a member of the Law Society of Scotland and that I hold a current pract...
Margaret Mitchell Con
A number of points have been raised. Daniel Johnson said that the amendment might prohibit settlements at the court door, but there is nothing to prevent a p...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The question is, that amendment 34 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There will be a division. As this is the first division of the stage, the Parliament is suspended for five minutes. 14:44 Meeting suspended. 14:49 On resum...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We will proceed with the division on amendment 34. For Balfour, Jeremy (Lothian) (Con) Ballantyne, Michelle (South Scotland) (Con) Bowman, Bill (North Ea...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The result of the division is: For 29, Against 84, Abstentions 0. Amendment 34 disagreed to. Section 4—Power to cap success fees
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We come to group 2. Amendment 5, in the name of the minister, is grouped with amendments 6 to 8, 13 and 14.
Annabelle Ewing SNP
Amendments 5 to 8 are technical in nature. We have been working with Her Majesty’s Treasury on the United Kingdom Financial Guidance and Claims Bill, which w...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to group 3. Amendment 1, in the name of Daniel Johnson, is grouped with amendments 2, 2A, 3 and 4.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I will speak to amendments 1 to 4 in my name and against Margaret Mitchell’s amendment 2A. I apologise in advance, Presiding Officer, as these are complex a...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Amendment 2A would amend amendment 2, in the name of Daniel Johnson, the effect of which would be to remove the ring fencing of future loss that was agreed t...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Does the member recognise that the awarding of additional fees, as she has set out and which she is setting a great deal of store by, is done in only 5 per c...
Margaret Mitchell Con
We are looking at legislation in which it is clearly set out that those cases are very complex, and the award amounts that we are talking about refer specifi...
Liam McArthur LD
It is difficult to admit that we got it wrong, but I think that that is exactly what all of us on the committee did at stage 2. There are mitigating circumst...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
I associate myself with the comments of my colleagues Daniel Johnson and Liam McArthur. I am prepared to say that it is important that we constantly reflect ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I will speak against amendments 1 and 2. If amendment 2 is agreed to, we will support amendment 2A. I confirm that we will vote for amendments 3 and 4. At t...
Daniel Johnson Lab
Would Mr Kerr not recognise that the proportions that are charged under success fee agreements at the moment can be as high as 60 per cent, as Liam McArthur ...
Liam Kerr Con
I will come back to that point, but I want to deal with a point that Daniel Johnson made earlier. He criticised the insurance industry for allegedly wishing ...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
What evidence can the member cite to support that claim? He will be aware that it has been refuted by, for example, the Association of Personal Injury Lawyers.
Liam Kerr Con
That is quite so but, in committee, we received a variety of evidence that suggested that there was a possibility of that happening and that it had happened ...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
I rise to support Daniel Johnson’s amendments 1 to 4. The bill as introduced followed Sheriff Principal Taylor’s recommendation that an award for future loss...
Liam Kerr Con
In those conversations with solicitors firms, did many of them report back that, if the future loss was ring fenced, they would cease to act in personal inju...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
We have to look at the facts that are before us and listen to the evidence that has been submitted to me as the minister and to the committee. People are tel...
Margaret Mitchell Con
Does the minister acknowledge that the situation in England and Wales is not analogous with the situation in Scotland, and that we are not comparing apples w...
Annabelle Ewing SNP
I have already dealt with that point. Notwithstanding the issue about judicial expenses, the architect of the policy south of the border has effectively reca...