Committee
Equal Opportunities Committee, 23 Oct 2007
23 Oct 2007 · S3 · Equal Opportunities Committee
Item of business
LGBT Hearts and Minds Agenda
Tim Hopkins:
Watch on SPTV
The last part of your question is something that we have already clearly identified: different approaches need to be taken in some places to deal with issues around transgender people. To answer the first part of the question, it will directly improve LGBT individuals' attitudes about ourselves if we address some of the cross-cutting issues that we have identified, such as the need for leadership from politicians, public services and employers and the issue of representations in, for example, the media and the school curriculum. If young LGBT people see themselves positively represented in materials that are used in school, it has a direct effect on them, but it obviously has a direct effect on non-LGBT people as well. The same is true with leadership.In the other two cross-cutting areas that I mentioned, things are slightly different. Building the capacity of LGBT people and organisations is obviously aimed primarily at improving the self-esteem and organisational capacity of LGBT people. That will then have a knock-on effect on the attitudes of non-LGBT people. However, the recommendations that Calum Irving mentioned on giving employers and public service providers confidence and certainty about what LGBT equality means, what they can do about it and that it is okay to do it are aimed primarily at changing the attitudes of non-LGBT people but will, again, have a knock-on effect.You asked about differences for trans people. We have identified a number of differences that are based on two points. There are a lot fewer transgender people in Scotland than there are LGB people. We do not know, but there might be 200,000 LGB adults in Scotland, whereas we think that there are between 5,000 and 10,000 people who would identify themselves as transgender in Scotland. Part of the issue is that not everybody agrees on the definition of transgender.Transgender people are a lot more isolated, and equality on trans issues is further back than equality on lesbian, gay and bisexual issues. That has several effects. First, there are far fewer social opportunities for trans people to meet together than for lesbian, gay and bisexual people. On the other hand, many more transgender people are interested in being activists and in changing society as well as changing their own lives. The Scottish Transgender Alliance has estimated that up to 50 per cent of trans people might be interested in working to change attitudes and change society as well as their own lives. However, many lack the skills, knowledge and confidence to do that, so one recommendation that we have made to address transgender equality and attitudes is for a programme of capacity building for transgender individuals who are keen on doing that kind of work in their local communities but need skills and confidence to be able to do it.We think that things are similar in some other areas. For example, the religion and belief sub-group—the sub-group of which I am a member—has identified similar issues for transgender people to those for lesbian, gay and bisexual people but, in some cases, they are worse. In particular, to take an extreme example, there are some religious organisations that, because they do not agree with lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender identities—really, they do not believe that there are such things—have the effect of undermining people's identities. For lesbian, gay and bisexual people, the ex-gay movement is an example.
In the same item of business
The Convener:
Con
We move on to today's main business. It is my pleasure to welcome to the meeting Tim Hopkins from the Equality Network; Fergus McMillan from LGBT Youth Scotl...
Calum Irving (Stonewall Scotland):
I will kick off. I thank the committee for inviting us along. The hearts and minds agenda group, which has been hosted by the Scottish Government's equality ...
Tim Hopkins (Equality Network):
The Equality Network's main focus is on legislative and policy change at the national level. On the hearts and minds agenda group, I have been involved in th...
The Convener:
Con
That is helpful.
Fergus McMillan (LGBT Youth Scotland):
Thank you for the opportunity to talk about the group's work. For the members who do not know this, I work for LGBT Youth Scotland, which is a national organ...
The Convener:
Con
Hilary Third is here in an advisory capacity—we are pleased to see her.I would like to establish whether the new Scottish Government has given an undertaking...
Hilary Third (Scottish Government Public Health and Wellbeing Directorate):
Yes, the new Government supports the work of the LGBT hearts and minds agenda group. The three organisations that are represented today receive funding from ...
The Convener:
Con
To underline and to be crystal clear, although the group will not report until the end of the year, can you give us a steer on the key recommendations, which...
Tim Hopkins:
Yes, we can. We have a fairly good idea of the recommendations now. Each sub-group has drawn up recommendations, but they still need to go to the whole group...
The Convener:
Con
It is good to know that there has been a smooth transition and that the group's work is being supported.We now move to Bill Kidd, who has a question to ask o...
Bill Wilson (West of Scotland) (SNP):
SNP
Too many Bills.In my previous existence as a statistician, I remember having difficulty gathering data on LGBT populations. In policy development, are there ...
Tim Hopkins:
We have carried out survey work on sensitivities among LGBT communities, with a particular focus on the census. Local public bodies ask us how many LGBT peop...
Bill Wilson:
SNP
Why do transgender people, as opposed to lesbian, gay and bisexual people, not want such a question to be included in the census?
Tim Hopkins:
There are several reasons. Definitions are part of the problem. We use the word "transgender" as an umbrella term that includes several different groups of p...
Calum Irving:
Data are important, particularly with respect to public services. It is important that public services know who they are serving and which communities they a...
Hugh O’Donnell (Central Scotland) (LD):
LD
You mentioned the 2011 census. Have you had any engagement with the compiler of questions and, if so, what sort of reaction have you had?
Tim Hopkins:
That is an interesting question. The census in Scotland is run by the General Register Office for Scotland. We have been talking to it about this for at leas...
Marlyn Glen (North East Scotland) (Lab):
Lab
I can see the need for accurate data. However, are you concerned that the exercise might be counterproductive, because it might result in statistics being ga...
Tim Hopkins:
We know that there will be underreporting; we have to say that up front and be absolutely clear about it. The underreporting will be different in relation to...
Marlyn Glen:
Lab
So the idea would be to put the argument out to public bodies at the beginning that it is really important to get that information.
Tim Hopkins:
Exactly. Notwithstanding the underreporting, asking the question would show differences around the country; we would get some useful data out of it.
Bill Wilson:
SNP
You said that public bodies run the census. Do you know of any other nations that conduct censuses and ask such questions?
Tim Hopkins:
I do not.
Calum Irving:
There are some, but I could not name them. We could get back to you on that.
The Convener:
Con
Is there a question around confidentiality for anyone revealing such information in the census?
Tim Hopkins:
Census data is kept confidential for 100 years. It is not quite confidential at the point where the census people employ an enumerator, who is responsible fo...
The Convener:
Con
That is helpful.You mentioned some health implications. Should there be something like a checklist? For example, we know that questions about childhood sexua...
Calum Irving:
I cannot say whether a checklist or other specific mechanism would be necessary. A lot of work has been done, but we would like to see more being done to ens...
Tim Hopkins:
The Scottish health survey—which surveys 6,000 people each time it is done, and is therefore much smaller than the census—already asks people about their sex...
The Convener:
Con
Are you confident that enough people understand the definition of transgender?