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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 March 2018

28 Mar 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Taxation
Fraser, Murdo Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I am sorry, but I have only four minutes. Mr Wightman will have a chance to respond in winding up the debate.

Those of us with long memories will recall that, in 2007, the SNP was elected on a clear manifesto commitment to scrap the council tax and replace it with a local income tax. Indeed, the language that SNP politicians used at the time was near hysterical. They talked about the “unfair” council tax or even the “hated” council tax. Of course, once the SNP was in office, even with an overall majority, it took no steps to scrap the council tax, despite all its promises and despite the fact that it was supposedly hated.

As Andy Wightman said, back in 2015, the report of the Scottish Government’s commission on local tax reform said that council tax must go but, just like the Greens today, it could not come up with an alternative proposal. Fortunately, the Scottish Conservatives were there to help out, not for the first time. We established our independent commission on competitive and fair taxation in Scotland, which reported just a month later, in January 2016, recommending that the council tax structure should remain essentially unchanged, but with an increase in the multiplier for the higher bands of G and H. As it happened, the SNP Government rejected the recommendation of its commission on local taxation and adopted proposals that were very similar to those of our commission, although it went further by increasing the multipliers for bands E and F in addition and increasing those for G and H by more than we would have done.

That is where we are. We have already had reform of the council tax, and we do not support further reform of it. Accordingly, we reject the Green motion. The council tax is by no means perfect—no system of taxation is—but it is better than many of the alternatives. The council tax is long established, easily understood, relatively efficient and relatively easy to collect. It is a property tax, and therefore an approximation of a tax on wealth, which is appropriate at a time when we regularly express concern about the bias in our tax system towards taxes on income as opposed to taxes on wealth. Although property may not always be an accurate proxy for wealth, nevertheless, our view is that some sort of property tax should be a component in the overall taxation mix in Scotland, as it is in most other western countries.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-11290, in the name of Andy Wightman, on scrapping the council tax. I call on Andy Wightman to speak to an...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green) Green
The last time that Parliament had a debate on the future of local taxation was in September 2016, when, rather typically of such debates, we ended up by not ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Many of us would keep the council tax in the absence of a better alternative. We cannot resolve to scrap it unless we know what we are proposing to replace i...
Andy Wightman Green
This debate has been bedevilled by claims that we must keep an out-of-date, archaic, regressive tax because we cannot agree on what should replace it. If we ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call on Derek Mackay to speak to and move amendment S5M-11290.2. 16:02
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Constitution (Derek Mackay) SNP
The package of reforms to the council tax that was set out in our 2016 Scottish Parliament manifesto has been delivered by the Scottish Government, with the ...
Andy Wightman Green
I recognise the reforms that were made in 2016, but I do not agree with the cabinet secretary that they address the fundamental iniquity and regressiveness o...
Derek Mackay SNP
Andy Wightman referred to “tinkering”. The reforms raise more than £500 million for public services, which is retained locally. I would describe that not as ...
Andy Wightman Green
Will the minister take an intervention?
Derek Mackay SNP
I have to make progress as I have only five minutes, I have taken one intervention and I have a lot to say on the Government’s position. It is a fair judgme...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Derek Mackay SNP
I have very little time left. I believe that the discussion paper on the role of income tax in Scotland, and the consultation throughout, was an exemplar in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I warn members that there is absolutely no time in hand, so speeches must be kept to time and absorb any interventions. That is bad timing for you, Mr Fraser...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I thank the Green Party for bringing this debate to the chamber. At least it is consistent in its messages on local taxation, but already in this short debat...
Andy Wightman Green
Will Mr Fraser take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes. Mr Wightman will have a chance to respond in winding up the debate. Those of us with long memories will recall tha...
Andy Wightman Green
Will Mr Fraser take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
I am sorry, but I just do not have time. We would support broadening the range of taxes that councils have at their disposal. We would want that to be under...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I thank Andy Wightman and the Greens for bringing forward this important debate, because “It’s time to scrap the Council Tax.” Those are not my words; they...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You know how I feel about props.
James Kelly Lab
—to scrap—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Put it down.
James Kelly Lab
—to scrap—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
No, put it down.
James Kelly Lab
It is a very important piece of evidence, because it shows Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond pledging to “scrap the unfair council tax.”
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
James Kelly Lab
Not just now. The reality is that 11 years down the road, we have Alex Salmond—
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick) SNP
Will the member give way?
James Kelly Lab
No, not just now. Eleven years down the road, Alex Salmond is a discredited television host, and the discredited council tax is still in place. How can we tr...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con) Con
Does James Kelly agree that such a tax would have an impact on domestic travellers, who make up 84 per cent of travellers to Scotland?