Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 28 March 2018
28 Mar 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Local Taxation
I thank the Green Party for bringing this debate to the chamber. At least it is consistent in its messages on local taxation, but already in this short debate we have exposed the black hole at the centre of the Green Party’s argument, because we cannot resolve to scrap the council tax without agreeing what we would replace it with.
I listened carefully to Andy Wightman’s speech, but I am no clearer about what the Greens are proposing as an alternative. I have heard them talk previously about a garden tax. I must say that that surprised me, as I thought that the Greens would be in favour of gardens, where they can cultivate their home-grown vegetables—their turnips and marrows—but now it seems that they want to tax those self-same gardens. However, we are not any clearer about what they are proposing.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-11290, in the name of Andy Wightman, on scrapping the council tax. I call on Andy Wightman to speak to an...
Andy Wightman (Lothian) (Green)
Green
The last time that Parliament had a debate on the future of local taxation was in September 2016, when, rather typically of such debates, we ended up by not ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
Many of us would keep the council tax in the absence of a better alternative. We cannot resolve to scrap it unless we know what we are proposing to replace i...
Andy Wightman
Green
This debate has been bedevilled by claims that we must keep an out-of-date, archaic, regressive tax because we cannot agree on what should replace it. If we ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call on Derek Mackay to speak to and move amendment S5M-11290.2. 16:02
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Constitution (Derek Mackay)
SNP
The package of reforms to the council tax that was set out in our 2016 Scottish Parliament manifesto has been delivered by the Scottish Government, with the ...
Andy Wightman
Green
I recognise the reforms that were made in 2016, but I do not agree with the cabinet secretary that they address the fundamental iniquity and regressiveness o...
Derek Mackay
SNP
Andy Wightman referred to “tinkering”. The reforms raise more than £500 million for public services, which is retained locally. I would describe that not as ...
Andy Wightman
Green
Will the minister take an intervention?
Derek Mackay
SNP
I have to make progress as I have only five minutes, I have taken one intervention and I have a lot to say on the Government’s position. It is a fair judgme...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
Lab
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Derek Mackay
SNP
I have very little time left. I believe that the discussion paper on the role of income tax in Scotland, and the consultation throughout, was an exemplar in...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I warn members that there is absolutely no time in hand, so speeches must be kept to time and absorb any interventions. That is bad timing for you, Mr Fraser...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
I thank the Green Party for bringing this debate to the chamber. At least it is consistent in its messages on local taxation, but already in this short debat...
Andy Wightman
Green
Will Mr Fraser take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser
Con
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes. Mr Wightman will have a chance to respond in winding up the debate. Those of us with long memories will recall tha...
Andy Wightman
Green
Will Mr Fraser take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser
Con
I am sorry, but I just do not have time. We would support broadening the range of taxes that councils have at their disposal. We would want that to be under...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab)
Lab
I thank Andy Wightman and the Greens for bringing forward this important debate, because “It’s time to scrap the Council Tax.” Those are not my words; they...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
You know how I feel about props.
James Kelly
Lab
—to scrap—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Put it down.
James Kelly
Lab
—to scrap—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
No, put it down.
James Kelly
Lab
It is a very important piece of evidence, because it shows Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond pledging to “scrap the unfair council tax.”
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
James Kelly
Lab
Not just now. The reality is that 11 years down the road, we have Alex Salmond—
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick)
SNP
Will the member give way?
James Kelly
Lab
No, not just now. Eleven years down the road, Alex Salmond is a discredited television host, and the discredited council tax is still in place. How can we tr...
Rachael Hamilton (Ettrick, Roxburgh and Berwickshire) (Con)
Con
Does James Kelly agree that such a tax would have an impact on domestic travellers, who make up 84 per cent of travellers to Scotland?