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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 March 2018

28 Mar 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Bus Services

It is not entirely within Government control. Clearly, there are various reasons why people may or may not use a service. Does it take them from where they are to where they want to be? Can they afford it? Is it accessible, safe, reliable and frequent? A consumer or traveller thinks about a number of questions before deciding to take the car or the bus. However, the Government still has a role to play.

That takes me on to quite a philosophical debate. There are many models that we can consider for how to operate services. At one end of the spectrum, there is the model of wholly privately owned franchises, which admittedly could be subject to more rigorous tender processes. At the other end of the spectrum, there is the model of an entirely municipally owned and heavily subsidised service. Somewhere in between, there is a hybrid model that works differently in different local authority areas to meet the needs of those areas. There is a fundamental debate about what works in different parts of Scotland and, again, I am open minded on that. This discussion is a good one, and we should have more such discussions.

There is also a debate about what we consider to be a lifeline service and, if we consider something to be a lifeline service, who should shoulder the responsibility for it. Recently, Ross Greer had a members’ business debate on the removal of routes and services, the cost of tickets and changes to timetabling, and the speech that sticks in my mind is Bob Doris’s, in which he listed the huge complexities in his part of the world with the services that are available. Right across the country, we MSPs get many representations from constituents with regard to scheduling decisions.

It is entirely appropriate for companies to operate to the best of their ability and deliver effective, reliable and affordable services, but franchises should not become mere cherry-picking exercises, where only the profitable routes are chosen and routes that I would consider to be lifeline services get taken away. I note that central Government has taken strategic decisions on other modes of transport such as aviation and ferries, and its subsidising of those services seems to be the normal thing to do.

However, having read the Government’s amendment, and thinking about what could be the direction of travel in the forthcoming transport bill, I hope that sole responsibility for delivering what we consider to be lifeline services will not be transferred to local authorities, whose budgets are already quite tight. If a local authority wants to operate a service, it should be allowed to do so, but only in the full knowledge of the consequences, the costs and the liabilities, including the pension liabilities with regard to drivers, the cost of continually upgrading the fleet in order to reduce emissions, and so on.

That said, I am very open to local authorities being able to operate services. The Lothian model has been mentioned a lot but, of course, what works for Edinburgh might not work for other parts of Scotland. We need to have this debate and discuss the options, but I hope that the proposed transport bill will not simply pay lip service to the issue, but actually address it. We need to put more pressure on the Government to deliver with regard to patronage.

I move amendment S5M-11289.3, to insert at end:

“, or via another appropriate but measurable method in relevant Scottish Government transport strategies, and calls on the Scottish Government to work with local authorities to ensure that timetabling and bus provision better meet local demands.”

15:01  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-11289, in the name of John Finnie, on better buses. 14:41
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
Here is a bit of background to the debate: in 1984, the United Kingdom Government published a white paper entitled “Buses”—good title. That resulted in the T...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Finnie is in his last half minute.
John Finnie Green
Making this work will require clear ambition. It is fair to say that the solution will be different in different parts of the country. All of that can be acc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Humza Yousaf to speak to and move amendment S5M-11289.2. 14:49
The Minister for Transport and the Islands (Humza Yousaf) SNP
I welcome this important debate, which brings a focus to one of the key modes in our sustainable transport mix. Given that 75 to 80 per cent of all public tr...
John Finnie Green
Will the minister acknowledge that I said that, although there would be a target, it could be applied differently in different areas? In the central belt, th...
Humza Yousaf SNP
I recognise the latter point. On the member’s first point, I hope that my amendment improves on his motion, because it makes it more explicit and clear that ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Jamie Greene to speak to and move amendment S5M-11289.3. 14:55
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I will attempt to use my tablet but, the last time I did that, the battery ran out halfway through my speech, so bear with me i...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does the member feel that the issue of how many people use the buses is entirely within Government control, or does he feel that there are other factors?
Jamie Greene Con
It is not entirely within Government control. Clearly, there are various reasons why people may or may not use a service. Does it take them from where they a...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I thank the Scottish Greens for bringing this important issue to the chamber. The need for real change in Scotland’s buses is clear for everyone to see. Muc...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I thank John Finnie and the Green Party for raising the issue of better buses. Like the Greens, the Liberal Democrats believe that reversing the decline in b...
Humza Yousaf SNP
That is twice today.
Mike Rumbles LD
I am coming to that. Do not get a heart attack. However—there is always a “however”—I want to use this debate to highlight the important issue of ensuring t...
Jamie Greene Con
Will the member take an intervention?
Mike Rumbles LD
I am in my final minute. I would take an intervention if I had more time, but I cannot do so, unfortunately. I am getting a nod from the Presiding Officer. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. We are very pushed for time, so I ask members to stick strictly to four minutes, please. I am sorry, Mr Ruskell—you have five mi...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
Thank you, Presiding Officer. We can all agree that bus services make a big contribution to the economic, environmental and social sustainability of our tow...
Liam Kerr Con
Will the member take an intervention?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You are in your final minute, Mr Ruskell; it is your choice.
Mark Ruskell Green
I am very tight for time—oh, go on then. Why not?
Liam Kerr Con
I will be brief. The member is making an important point, but nowhere in the Green Party motion is there a reference to anything to do with the environment. ...
Mark Ruskell Green
The environment is integral to what constitutes a quality public service. That is the point that I am trying to make. Environmental quality is hugely importa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call John Mason, to be followed by Peter Chapman. You have a strict four minutes, Mr Mason. 15:15
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I should probably declare that I have had a bus pass since last summer and I have saved somewhere in the region of £150 since then. I generally prefer to use...
John Finnie Green
Politics is about priorities. If our priority is to spend £6 billion on two roads, we will not have money for public transport.
John Mason SNP
I accept that politics is about priorities, but if we put more money into buses and public transport, there will be less money somewhere else. As I said, al...