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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 21 March 2018

21 Mar 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (Scotland) Bill

Normally, members state at the start of their remarks how pleased they are to speak in a debate. I must say that, today, for me, that is not the case. We do not want to be having this debate. We did not want Scotland and the UK to face the economic and social uncertainty and costs that Brexit will bring. We did not want to have to spend considerable time and resources in this place debating the UK’s and Scotland’s withdrawal from the EU, which is a distraction from our work in moving Scotland forward.

We would have preferred the UK Government not to have pressed forward with the European Union (Withdrawal) Bill without our amendments to it, which were necessary to protect the devolution settlement. We would have preferred to have reached a negotiated solution with the UK Government on the form of common frameworks. We all agree that those frameworks are necessary, but they must be based on consent and not just consultation. I hope that there is scope to reach agreement on that in the coming days and weeks.

However, that is the situation that we find ourselves in, and we have to make the most of it. The continuity bill is required to put in place the necessary legislation to ensure that devolved matters are decided on in the Scottish Parliament. The bill will ensure legal continuity of the powers over devolved matters and will prevent their being exercised by Westminster. That is important on a number of levels. First, it supports the enshrining of the devolution settlement, which is the basis of all the work that we do in this place. The principle is that what is not reserved is devolved. The bill prevents the setting of a precedent of devolved powers being controlled from Westminster under the guise of Brexit or in any other way.

Secondly, it is important to recognise that the matters that we are debating and the law that we will pass today do not involve some dry legal argument about the constitution, but potentially have very real consequences for people across Scotland. The Health and Sport Committee has heard of the risks to our Scottish national health service of being dragged into a UK-wide trade deal in the post-Brexit world. There is a risk that the distinctive Scottish approach to delivering healthcare, which is different from the increasingly marketised service provision in England, will be compromised in that process. There is a risk that public health measures that we have taken or hope to take to place restrictions on harmful products such as alcohol, tobacco and the foods that are at the root of our obesity epidemic will be constrained to protect multinational commercial interests as part of trade deals. In that area and on many other issues that are critical to the people of Scotland, the bill is intended to provide some protection by resisting steps to move the power to legislate in those devolved areas to another place.

The way in which the bill has been progressed through its stages by the minister and his team deserves commendation. The sheer number of amendments and the length of debate at stages 2 and 3 make it clear that everyone has had their chance to make their case and that sufficient time has been made available to scrutinise the bill.

The bill is necessary to protect the powers of the Parliament. It is the backstop that provides some protection for us from the Brexit chaos that is consuming the UK Government. It was necessary to introduce the bill at this time to ensure that those safeguards are in place in sufficient time.

We should not lose sight of the bigger picture. By intent or by omission, the actions of the UK Government represent a significant risk to the devolution settlement. It is our duty and our responsibility as members of the Scottish Parliament to protect that settlement. I expect that, shortly, we will pass the bill by a significant majority. We will show that the Scottish Parliament, representing the Scottish people who elected us, is standing up for Scotland and making sure that their voice is heard. I urge members to vote for the bill.

18:53  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-11136, in the name of Michael Russell, on the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (S...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the UK Withdrawal from...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Michael Russell to speak to and move the motion. 18:23
The Minister for UK Negotiations on Scotland’s Place in Europe (Michael Russell) SNP
On 27 February, which seems like an impossibly long time ago now, I came to the chamber to set out the Government’s reasons for introducing the bill. In the ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
As the minister knows, there are grave doubts about the legislative competence of the bill. In order to clarify and clear up those doubts authoritatively—tha...
Michael Russell SNP
The Scottish Government, of which the Lord Advocate is a member, has no grave doubts. It has no doubt that the bill is competent. That is absolutely clear to...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I open on a point of consensus—like my friend and colleague Murdo Fraser, I am always looking for consensus. On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I echo ...
John Swinney SNP
Will the member give way?
Adam Tomkins Con
The Lord Advocate should have the courage of his legal convictions and he should use his powers under the Scotland Act 1998 to refer the provisions of the bi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Please sit down, Mr Swinney.
Adam Tomkins Con
First, there is the point about its compatibility with European law, which is the point that the Presiding Officer wrote about in his opinion on legislative ...
John Swinney SNP
Does Mr Tomkins not accept that for the Scottish Government to present the bill to Parliament, we would have had to seek the authority of the Lord Advocate—S...
Adam Tomkins Con
Of course I accept that. That is a matter of fact, as Mr Swinney well knows, but there is more than one legal opinion about this. There is also the legal opi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. Interruption. Excuse me. It is very difficult to hear if members yell.
John Swinney SNP
It was not worth listening to.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Swinney! No one is above the chair in this chamber. 18:37
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
It is always depressing to follow Boris Johnson, Presiding Officer. This bill has gone through Parliament at breakneck speed. From the outset, if we are hon...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I am unclear on the timing of speeches, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You have four minutes.
Neil Findlay Lab
You have one minute.
Patrick Harvie Green
I will have to disappoint Mr Findlay and go on for just a little more than a minute. I think that, fundamentally, Parliament has done its job in this proces...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
This Parliament is stronger for having people such as Adam Tomkins in it. He brings a wealth of experience and a hinterland—as people in other walks of life ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes. 18:50
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
Normally, members state at the start of their remarks how pleased they are to speak in a debate. I must say that, today, for me, that is not the case. We do ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The bill is not one that the Scottish Conservatives ever wanted to see. We made it clear from the start that we consider it to be unnecessary and beyond the ...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You can take the intervention if you wish. I can give you a little extra time.
Murdo Fraser Con
Well, if I have a moment, I will give way.
Patrick Harvie Green
I am grateful. Mr Fraser knows that he has successfully improved the bill, and I have supported some of his amendments. However, he says that the bill still ...