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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 21 March 2018

21 Mar 2018 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (Scotland) Bill

I will have to disappoint Mr Findlay and go on for just a little more than a minute.

I think that, fundamentally, Parliament has done its job in this process—a process that we did not wish to face and one that is, inevitably, imperfect.

We should not be here at the stage 3 debate rehashing debates about competence or about whether the bill is an emergency bill. We have already agreed to the emergency procedure, and we have already agreed to the general principles. Parliament has decided that the bill should be considered. Frankly, if its competence is ultimately challenged, I want the Scottish Government to defend the bill robustly once we have passed it.

Instead of rehashing that debate, let us recognise the work that has been done since the introduction of the bill. Under extraordinary time pressures, we have maximised committee scrutiny as much as humanly possible. We have maximised the chamber debating time with innovations to the emergency procedure. We have shifted the balance in the bill, taking some power that would have gone to Government and ensuring that it goes to Parliament instead, and we have made significant changes to the contents of the bill.

Both Mr Kelly and the minister are right that that could not have been done without the support of a great many people—the committee clerks, the legislation team and a great many others, including our own teams in our party groups. I know that, across the parties, our teams have worked hard not just to put forward our own propositions but to try to achieve consensus.

Indeed, some of the most important changes that we have achieved in the bill have been done by cross-party agreement. That is the way that this Parliament was supposed to work in the first place. We were never built to be a Parliament like the bear pit of the House of Commons, with two sides opposing each other, two swords’ lengths apart. This Parliament was always supposed to be about trying to cultivate some cross-party agreement. We often fail on that, and our politics often falls back into tribal lines. However, on this occasion, we have managed, where possible, to achieve agreement with the Government on some significant issues of policy, and to push the Government beyond its comfort zone on a few points.

As a result, serious regulation-making powers in the bill have been restricted, both in timescale and in scope, and major improvements have been made in relation to environmental principles, social rights, scrutiny and challenge. Those not only improve the bill as introduced, but they clearly improve on the UK legislation that ultimately we would have been forced to accept—if not for the introduction of the continuity bill, we would have given the UK Government a pretext to impose the UK legislation on us without legislative consent.

Over the months and years to come, we will no doubt disagree on many issues. We will disagree when Conservatives such as Adam Tomkins, who voted remain because he knew the damage that the Brexit crisis will cause, chant “Take back control!” We will disagree with some Labour members of the Scottish Parliament, who promise a deal that will secure the exact same benefits of membership of the single market but who are not willing to commit to freedom of movement as one of those fundamentally important benefits of being in the single market. I will disagree with those in the Scottish National Party, for example, who have never supported international agreement on the control of fish stocks and who seek to achieve changes in that regard that I will not be able to support.

There will be a great deal on which we disagree, and—fundamentally—I will disagree with those who say that we should give up the ghost and give up the principled position for which the clear majority of people in Scotland voted. We should respect how they voted. We should oppose Brexit. We will disagree on that, too.

However, I am delighted that there has been enough of a measure of agreement on changes that were necessary to the bill. It is a better bill that we will pass than the one that was introduced, and I will vote for it.

18:45  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-11136, in the name of Michael Russell, on the UK Withdrawal from the European Union (Legal Continuity) (S...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the UK Withdrawal from...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Michael Russell to speak to and move the motion. 18:23
The Minister for UK Negotiations on Scotland’s Place in Europe (Michael Russell) SNP
On 27 February, which seems like an impossibly long time ago now, I came to the chamber to set out the Government’s reasons for introducing the bill. In the ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
As the minister knows, there are grave doubts about the legislative competence of the bill. In order to clarify and clear up those doubts authoritatively—tha...
Michael Russell SNP
The Scottish Government, of which the Lord Advocate is a member, has no grave doubts. It has no doubt that the bill is competent. That is absolutely clear to...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I open on a point of consensus—like my friend and colleague Murdo Fraser, I am always looking for consensus. On behalf of the Scottish Conservatives, I echo ...
John Swinney SNP
Will the member give way?
Adam Tomkins Con
The Lord Advocate should have the courage of his legal convictions and he should use his powers under the Scotland Act 1998 to refer the provisions of the bi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Please sit down, Mr Swinney.
Adam Tomkins Con
First, there is the point about its compatibility with European law, which is the point that the Presiding Officer wrote about in his opinion on legislative ...
John Swinney SNP
Does Mr Tomkins not accept that for the Scottish Government to present the bill to Parliament, we would have had to seek the authority of the Lord Advocate—S...
Adam Tomkins Con
Of course I accept that. That is a matter of fact, as Mr Swinney well knows, but there is more than one legal opinion about this. There is also the legal opi...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you. Interruption. Excuse me. It is very difficult to hear if members yell.
John Swinney SNP
It was not worth listening to.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Mr Swinney! No one is above the chair in this chamber. 18:37
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
It is always depressing to follow Boris Johnson, Presiding Officer. This bill has gone through Parliament at breakneck speed. From the outset, if we are hon...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I am unclear on the timing of speeches, Presiding Officer.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You have four minutes.
Neil Findlay Lab
You have one minute.
Patrick Harvie Green
I will have to disappoint Mr Findlay and go on for just a little more than a minute. I think that, fundamentally, Parliament has done its job in this proces...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
This Parliament is stronger for having people such as Adam Tomkins in it. He brings a wealth of experience and a hinterland—as people in other walks of life ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate, with speeches of four minutes. 18:50
Ivan McKee (Glasgow Provan) (SNP) SNP
Normally, members state at the start of their remarks how pleased they are to speak in a debate. I must say that, today, for me, that is not the case. We do ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The bill is not one that the Scottish Conservatives ever wanted to see. We made it clear from the start that we consider it to be unnecessary and beyond the ...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the member give way?
Murdo Fraser Con
I am sorry, but I have only four minutes.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You can take the intervention if you wish. I can give you a little extra time.
Murdo Fraser Con
Well, if I have a moment, I will give way.
Patrick Harvie Green
I am grateful. Mr Fraser knows that he has successfully improved the bill, and I have supported some of his amendments. However, he says that the bill still ...