Committee
Equalities and Human Rights Committee 01 March 2018
01 Mar 2018 · S5 · Equalities and Human Rights Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Equality Act 2010 (Authorities subject to the Socio-economic Inequality Duty) (Scotland) Regulations 2018 [Draft]
Angela Constance
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I will ask Colin Brown to respond on that point in a moment, but the definition of “Scottish Ministers”, in terms of core and main government, is as listed in the guidance. As the policy note says, “‘Scottish Ministers’ includes the following: The Scottish Government, Accountant in Bankruptcy; Disclosure Scotland; Education Scotland; Scottish Prison Service; Scottish Public Pensions Agency; Student Awards Agency for Scotland; Transport Scotland” and “The new Scottish Social Security Agency, once established”. The organisation that you mention is not listed. It is important to remember that a three-point test has to be applied here. This is where we are bound by the architecture of the original 2010 act. There are three important points. For organisations to be listed for the duty, they need either to be based in Scotland or to have a function that is in Scotland. They need to be devolved. The more challenging bit is that they need to be equivalent to the English bodies. The 2010 act lists a whole range of bodies south of the border, and we had to see where our equivalent bodies were—hence the importance of our consultation. It took a bit of exploring. Organisations could be broadly comparable but not exactly the same, given the devolved settlement.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Under agenda item 2 we will consider an affirmative Scottish statutory instrument. This session will allow us to question the Cabinet Secretary for Communiti...
Angela Constance (Cabinet Secretary for Communities, Social Security and Equalities)
Good morning.
The Convener
SNP
We also have Colin Brown, from the Scottish Government. Cabinet Secretary, I invite you to give us some opening remarks on the purpose and detail of the dra...
Angela Constance
Good morning to you, convener, and to committee colleagues. I am always grateful for the invitation to come to committee to give evidence. I am particularly ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I will move straight to questions from committee colleagues.
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, cabinet secretary. There is something that I would like to probe in a little bit more detail with you. I am referring to the letter that you se...
Angela Constance
It is important to make a distinction, and I invite you to look at the examples that I gave in my letter. For new public bodies and the legislation that esta...
Mary Fee
Lab
You are more or less saying that, as we go forward, you will be taking a belt-and-braces approach to ensure that everyone is included.
Angela Constance
Yes. We are keen to apply the duty where it can be applied. The great thing about the consultation was that we were able to extend the list of bodies that ar...
Mary Fee
Lab
Would introducing regulations every two or three years, say, give you an opportunity to update any guidance that goes to all organisations?
Angela Constance
Yes. That is a really important point. We are introducing interim guidance for April. On your point about embedding duties, I emphasise that they really mak...
Mary Fee
Lab
That is helpful—thank you.
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Good morning, cabinet secretary, and thank you for coming to see us today. I would like to ask you about the three-year implementation period. That seems qui...
Angela Constance
That is an interesting point about how long the implementation period should be. The duty puts tackling poverty and inequality at the heart of the big, strat...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
One of our shared interests in the committee and, I am sure, across the Parliament is the idea that new policy or directives such as this, which are aimed at...
Angela Constance
No. People were very clear in the consultation responses that what we did not want, and what the public sector most certainly does not want, is a tick-box ex...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Can the cabinet secretary furnish me with any practical examples of how, in her view, the duty in the draft SSI may affect the relevant agencies on a day-to-...
Angela Constance
On the types of decisions that bodies could be making, we would expect them to give due regard to how they are going to narrow socioeconomic disadvantage, an...
Jamie Greene
Con
I appreciate that comprehensive response. Could I probe a little bit further on that? This strikes me as quite similar to some of the language that is used i...
Angela Constance
I am not familiar with that example so, as you will appreciate, I would prefer to speak in broader terms. It is imperative that, when people are making deci...
Jamie Greene
Con
That is very interesting and very helpful. Finally, I have a technical question about the definitions. The Scottish ministers are listed as a public author...
Angela Constance
I will ask Colin Brown to respond on that point in a moment, but the definition of “Scottish Ministers”, in terms of core and main government, is as listed i...
Colin Brown (Scottish Government)
The “Scottish Ministers” definition would refer to bodies that are within the umbrella of Scottish ministers in statute. It would not directly apply to a pri...
Jamie Greene
Con
To clarify, it was a publicly owned company that I mentioned.
Colin Brown
If the company is publicly owned—if Scottish ministers are directing that company—Scottish ministers are exercising functions of a strategic nature, and they...
Jamie Greene
Con
I understand. The Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Bill, for example, included a schedule with a list of agencies, and there was therefore n...
Angela Constance
I am not sure that there is ambiguity. We will take the opportunity to double-check, but the question is whether and how a public body is set up by its found...
Colin Brown
To an extent, the design of the list affects the powers, and the existence of the three-point test affects what can be listed. As the cabinet secretary has a...
Angela Constance
There are differences here. The bodies that are subject to the public sector equality duty are different. There is an overlap. Not all the bodies that are su...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
I have a supplementary question linked to the definitions. I still bear the scars—as do many people who were involved in the passage of the Children and Youn...