Committee
Equalities and Human Rights Committee 01 March 2018
01 Mar 2018 · S5 · Equalities and Human Rights Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Equality Act 2010 (Authorities subject to the Socio-economic Inequality Duty) (Scotland) Regulations 2018 [Draft]
Angela Constance
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No. People were very clear in the consultation responses that what we did not want, and what the public sector most certainly does not want, is a tick-box exercise. The other thing that struck me from the consultation feedback was that people wanted to be able to use the duty as a way to prevent or deal with the causes of poverty and inequality, as opposed to always mitigating their consequences. It is fair to say that there is good, broad support for the duty in principle. Inevitably, people will always have concerns about how the socioeconomic duty interacts with other duties. We need to work with people to ensure that we get it right, and that is why we are having an implementation period. People will be subject to the duty from April but, over the next three years, we will be actively considering how things are working on the ground. We will be trying to help the public sector proactively, through the funding of the national post and through the work that we will do to constantly review and appraise the interim guidance. The work that is being done with poverty truth-type commissions will enable us to have a continuing dialogue before we issue final guidance. We have an open mind as to whether, at the end of the implementation period, I will need to come back and make further regulations or indeed consider a piece of primary legislation to ensure that the various duties are aligned. I felt that this was really important, given that the relevant part of the 2010 act had lain dormant for so long and that the measures were something that we could implement. I am of the view that, when you can do something, you should get on and do it. You can always tweak and refine as you go on. It is really important, given the scale of the challenge that we face in modern Scotland, to get on and do things. We can, of course, review, refine and improve how we work in practice—but we have to get on and do it.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Under agenda item 2 we will consider an affirmative Scottish statutory instrument. This session will allow us to question the Cabinet Secretary for Communiti...
Angela Constance (Cabinet Secretary for Communities, Social Security and Equalities)
Good morning.
The Convener
SNP
We also have Colin Brown, from the Scottish Government. Cabinet Secretary, I invite you to give us some opening remarks on the purpose and detail of the dra...
Angela Constance
Good morning to you, convener, and to committee colleagues. I am always grateful for the invitation to come to committee to give evidence. I am particularly ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I will move straight to questions from committee colleagues.
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, cabinet secretary. There is something that I would like to probe in a little bit more detail with you. I am referring to the letter that you se...
Angela Constance
It is important to make a distinction, and I invite you to look at the examples that I gave in my letter. For new public bodies and the legislation that esta...
Mary Fee
Lab
You are more or less saying that, as we go forward, you will be taking a belt-and-braces approach to ensure that everyone is included.
Angela Constance
Yes. We are keen to apply the duty where it can be applied. The great thing about the consultation was that we were able to extend the list of bodies that ar...
Mary Fee
Lab
Would introducing regulations every two or three years, say, give you an opportunity to update any guidance that goes to all organisations?
Angela Constance
Yes. That is a really important point. We are introducing interim guidance for April. On your point about embedding duties, I emphasise that they really mak...
Mary Fee
Lab
That is helpful—thank you.
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Good morning, cabinet secretary, and thank you for coming to see us today. I would like to ask you about the three-year implementation period. That seems qui...
Angela Constance
That is an interesting point about how long the implementation period should be. The duty puts tackling poverty and inequality at the heart of the big, strat...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
One of our shared interests in the committee and, I am sure, across the Parliament is the idea that new policy or directives such as this, which are aimed at...
Angela Constance
No. People were very clear in the consultation responses that what we did not want, and what the public sector most certainly does not want, is a tick-box ex...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Can the cabinet secretary furnish me with any practical examples of how, in her view, the duty in the draft SSI may affect the relevant agencies on a day-to-...
Angela Constance
On the types of decisions that bodies could be making, we would expect them to give due regard to how they are going to narrow socioeconomic disadvantage, an...
Jamie Greene
Con
I appreciate that comprehensive response. Could I probe a little bit further on that? This strikes me as quite similar to some of the language that is used i...
Angela Constance
I am not familiar with that example so, as you will appreciate, I would prefer to speak in broader terms. It is imperative that, when people are making deci...
Jamie Greene
Con
That is very interesting and very helpful. Finally, I have a technical question about the definitions. The Scottish ministers are listed as a public author...
Angela Constance
I will ask Colin Brown to respond on that point in a moment, but the definition of “Scottish Ministers”, in terms of core and main government, is as listed i...
Colin Brown (Scottish Government)
The “Scottish Ministers” definition would refer to bodies that are within the umbrella of Scottish ministers in statute. It would not directly apply to a pri...
Jamie Greene
Con
To clarify, it was a publicly owned company that I mentioned.
Colin Brown
If the company is publicly owned—if Scottish ministers are directing that company—Scottish ministers are exercising functions of a strategic nature, and they...
Jamie Greene
Con
I understand. The Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Bill, for example, included a schedule with a list of agencies, and there was therefore n...
Angela Constance
I am not sure that there is ambiguity. We will take the opportunity to double-check, but the question is whether and how a public body is set up by its found...
Colin Brown
To an extent, the design of the list affects the powers, and the existence of the three-point test affects what can be listed. As the cabinet secretary has a...
Angela Constance
There are differences here. The bodies that are subject to the public sector equality duty are different. There is an overlap. Not all the bodies that are su...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
I have a supplementary question linked to the definitions. I still bear the scars—as do many people who were involved in the passage of the Children and Youn...