Committee
Equalities and Human Rights Committee 01 March 2018
01 Mar 2018 · S5 · Equalities and Human Rights Committee
Item of business
Subordinate Legislation
Equality Act 2010 (Authorities subject to the Socio-economic Inequality Duty) (Scotland) Regulations 2018 [Draft]
Angela Constance
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Good morning to you, convener, and to committee colleagues. I am always grateful for the invitation to come to committee to give evidence. I am particularly pleased to give evidence on the fairer Scotland duty ahead of the committee’s consideration of the draft regulations. The duty is an important one. The draft instrument introduces a new requirement on ministers and public bodies through the Equality Act 2010, whereby all strategic decisions made by the public sector must, from April this year, include careful consideration of how inequalities of outcome caused by disadvantage can be narrowed. It is a duty with a purpose. It helps to ensure that public sector bodies, including Scottish ministers, carefully consider inequalities of outcome in decision making. It makes it easier to hold public authorities to account for those decisions, and it encourages better decisions. Ultimately, it should deliver better outcomes for people facing poverty and disadvantage. The duty finally completes for Scotland a set of duties that was originally planned at a UK level in 2010: duties on equality, on child poverty and, now, on socioeconomic inequality. Together, they provide a strong basis on which to build the fairer Scotland that we all want to work towards, and I am keen to ensure that the duties will work well together over the coming years. To ensure that the new duty works well in practice, the Scottish Government will be delivering a range of support. Non-statutory guidance will be published shortly, having been informed by our consultation last year and developed in consultation with a wide range of stakeholders, including the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities. In addition, we are funding a new national co-ordinator post at the Improvement Service to deliver training and share best practice. We are considering how to build on the support that we have already provided to three local authorities to set up their own poverty truth commission-style bodies. On the draft regulations themselves, as you know, the Scottish Government can name public authorities to be listed under the duty if they meet the three-point test under the Equality Act 2010. We consulted on an initial list of authorities based on our own assessment, and we were able to add a number of further bodies that were suggested by consultees. Newly established statutory bodies that meet the three-point test can be made subject to the duty through future regulations. The committee will have seen the letter that I sent to the convener, which sets out some additional information and, I hope, addresses the matter that was raised by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee. I am more than happy to answer any questions.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Under agenda item 2 we will consider an affirmative Scottish statutory instrument. This session will allow us to question the Cabinet Secretary for Communiti...
Angela Constance (Cabinet Secretary for Communities, Social Security and Equalities)
Good morning.
The Convener
SNP
We also have Colin Brown, from the Scottish Government. Cabinet Secretary, I invite you to give us some opening remarks on the purpose and detail of the dra...
Angela Constance
Good morning to you, convener, and to committee colleagues. I am always grateful for the invitation to come to committee to give evidence. I am particularly ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I will move straight to questions from committee colleagues.
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab)
Lab
Good morning, cabinet secretary. There is something that I would like to probe in a little bit more detail with you. I am referring to the letter that you se...
Angela Constance
It is important to make a distinction, and I invite you to look at the examples that I gave in my letter. For new public bodies and the legislation that esta...
Mary Fee
Lab
You are more or less saying that, as we go forward, you will be taking a belt-and-braces approach to ensure that everyone is included.
Angela Constance
Yes. We are keen to apply the duty where it can be applied. The great thing about the consultation was that we were able to extend the list of bodies that ar...
Mary Fee
Lab
Would introducing regulations every two or three years, say, give you an opportunity to update any guidance that goes to all organisations?
Angela Constance
Yes. That is a really important point. We are introducing interim guidance for April. On your point about embedding duties, I emphasise that they really mak...
Mary Fee
Lab
That is helpful—thank you.
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
Good morning, cabinet secretary, and thank you for coming to see us today. I would like to ask you about the three-year implementation period. That seems qui...
Angela Constance
That is an interesting point about how long the implementation period should be. The duty puts tackling poverty and inequality at the heart of the big, strat...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
One of our shared interests in the committee and, I am sure, across the Parliament is the idea that new policy or directives such as this, which are aimed at...
Angela Constance
No. People were very clear in the consultation responses that what we did not want, and what the public sector most certainly does not want, is a tick-box ex...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Can the cabinet secretary furnish me with any practical examples of how, in her view, the duty in the draft SSI may affect the relevant agencies on a day-to-...
Angela Constance
On the types of decisions that bodies could be making, we would expect them to give due regard to how they are going to narrow socioeconomic disadvantage, an...
Jamie Greene
Con
I appreciate that comprehensive response. Could I probe a little bit further on that? This strikes me as quite similar to some of the language that is used i...
Angela Constance
I am not familiar with that example so, as you will appreciate, I would prefer to speak in broader terms. It is imperative that, when people are making deci...
Jamie Greene
Con
That is very interesting and very helpful. Finally, I have a technical question about the definitions. The Scottish ministers are listed as a public author...
Angela Constance
I will ask Colin Brown to respond on that point in a moment, but the definition of “Scottish Ministers”, in terms of core and main government, is as listed i...
Colin Brown (Scottish Government)
The “Scottish Ministers” definition would refer to bodies that are within the umbrella of Scottish ministers in statute. It would not directly apply to a pri...
Jamie Greene
Con
To clarify, it was a publicly owned company that I mentioned.
Colin Brown
If the company is publicly owned—if Scottish ministers are directing that company—Scottish ministers are exercising functions of a strategic nature, and they...
Jamie Greene
Con
I understand. The Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Bill, for example, included a schedule with a list of agencies, and there was therefore n...
Angela Constance
I am not sure that there is ambiguity. We will take the opportunity to double-check, but the question is whether and how a public body is set up by its found...
Colin Brown
To an extent, the design of the list affects the powers, and the existence of the three-point test affects what can be listed. As the cabinet secretary has a...
Angela Constance
There are differences here. The bodies that are subject to the public sector equality duty are different. There is an overlap. Not all the bodies that are su...
Alex Cole-Hamilton
LD
I have a supplementary question linked to the definitions. I still bear the scars—as do many people who were involved in the passage of the Children and Youn...