Committee
Public Petitions Committee 07 December 2017
07 Dec 2017 · S5 · Public Petitions Committee
Item of business
New Petitions
Cat Population (Management) (PE1674)
Ellie Stirling
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Right. We have possibly already covered number 1. There could be a simple redefinition in the code of practice so that an owned cat is defined not as being under human control but as being expected to return to its owners. In addition, cats should, preferably, be neutered and ID chipped. That would require not a change in law but an amendment to the code of practice. That way, we could not be accused of trying to criminalise people, because we just want to redefine the code of practice. The second proposal is that all owned cats be neutered, microchipped and registered, with the cost to be borne by the owner. The majority of people bear the responsibility of that cost already. In the past two to three years, cat welfare organisations and generic pet welfare organisations have told me that neutering is such an important priority for them that they provide neutering for free, so that service is available if people need it for their pets. People do not have to go through a demeaning income assessment test and they are not asked questions. If they need it, they can get the cat neutered. People can make a £5 donation to some of the schemes if they want to, but they do not have to. Cost is mostly not an issue. There might be an issue were there to be an immediate surge in the demand on veterinary professionals to provide neutering—that situation would need to be thought about, because that would lead to a surge in the amount of financial resources being used by the charities providing the service. However, all the charities that I know require neutering and do not sign over cats or kittens until they are neutered. Therefore, people can access free neutering for their cats. I cannot imagine that a huge flood of people would come forward in one go, especially if the process were staged over the next one or two years. At one stage, I did some costings, but I have not brought them with me. If everybody went at once, there would be a cost implication. I turn to the licensed exemption scheme. In the case of microchipped dogs, people are classed as breeders if their dog has offspring and they register with the Kennel Club. It would be really helpful if thought could be given to what body could do that in relation to cats. It should not be local authorities, which is the approach that is being considered in England. They do not have the resources. In England, the discussion on cat population control seems to have led to local authorities being asked to suss out the repeat sellers of kittens and ensure that they become registered as breeders. I do not think that Scottish local authorities would be terribly comfortable about being asked to take on that role, even if they have the resources, because they would be almost being asked to take on a policing role in relation to the system. The approach should not be seen as policing bad behaviour; it should be seen as trying to get everybody on the side of good behaviour—that is the psychologist in me talking. It is really important in Scotland because we have the wildcat to think about, and also because we care about our cats—full stop. 10:45
In the same item of business
The Convener
Lab
Agenda item 2 is on new petition PE1674, on managing the cat population in Scotland, which was lodged by Ellie Stirling. The petition calls for a review of t...
Ellie Stirling
It is a privilege to have this opportunity and I really appreciate it. The committee’s consideration of my petition represents a change of tack from the prev...
The Convener
Lab
Thank you. I invite ask Angus MacDonald to open the questioning.
Angus MacDonald
SNP
In your submission, you say that you have written to the Scottish Government, the cabinet secretary, the cross-party group on animal welfare and your regiona...
Ellie Stirling
I have written three times to the Cabinet Secretary for the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform and received responses from the animal welfare sectio...
Angus MacDonald
SNP
The figures in your submission are quite staggering. With 400,000 feral cats, and with 286,000 kittens being born every year, we can see the reason for the o...
Michelle Ballantyne
Con
I have to say that I am a bit shocked. I did not know all this information about cats so the petition made for interesting reading. You said that ownership ...
Ellie Stirling
When I did the research earlier this year, I was also quite stunned to find that definition. Because cats, dogs and farmed animals are all classified as non-...
Michelle Ballantyne
Con
How would breeders and showers be dealt with under that arrangement? Would they have to be specially licensed?
Ellie Stirling
I have not worked in those areas of licensing, but there would be nothing to stop a person being a breeder of cats. There is no compulsion to not breed. Some...
Brian Whittle
Con
In the petition, you say that you believe that a new approach is required because 10 per cent of cat owners do not have their cats neutered, despite appeals ...
Ellie Stirling
Thank you for the question. The approach that you have outlined—which could be summed up as the voluntary approach—is what I have relied on until recently. I...
Brian Whittle
Con
Is there the possibility of compulsory registration, not just of pet cats but of pet animals?
Ellie Stirling
I would suggest something similar to dog microchipping. All dogs now have to be microchipped and the microchip is registered on a managed database. If you ar...
Rona Mackay
SNP
I should declare an interest. I am a member of the cross-party group in the Scottish Parliament on animal welfare. I follow on the questioning from my colle...
Ellie Stirling
People in Government, quite genuinely, have not had time to process the statistics. I was shocked by the statistics and you have said that you were too. I ha...
Rona Mackay
SNP
Briefly, I ask for clarification on a second point. In the second part of your submission, you include a proposal from Anna Meredith from Scottish Wildcat Ac...
Ellie Stirling
I should say that I made a typing error in my submission. Professor Anna Meredith is the professor of zoological and conservation medicine at the University ...
Rona Mackay
SNP
Thank you—that clears up that matter.
Angus MacDonald
SNP
You have listed five things—they are in the petition, so I will not list them—that you would like to see happen through any review of the code of practice. H...
Ellie Stirling
I am not sure that I follow you.
Angus MacDonald
SNP
I am talking about the five items that relate to the code of practice—the native range guidance associated with the Wildlife and Natural Environment (Scotlan...
Ellie Stirling
Yes, please.
Angus MacDonald
SNP
Number 1 is that a neutered cat should be defined as being under human control and exempt from NNS legislation. Are you with me now?
Ellie Stirling
Thank you. I have got it now—that is at the bottom of the second page of my petition. What would you like me to explain?
Angus MacDonald
SNP
Will you explain how you would like to see the five asks happen through any review of the code of practice?
Ellie Stirling
You want to know about the practicalities of how all that would be done.
Angus MacDonald
SNP
Yes, and whether you have considered the cost of enforcement.
Ellie Stirling
Right. We have possibly already covered number 1. There could be a simple redefinition in the code of practice so that an owned cat is defined not as being u...
Angus MacDonald
SNP
Of course, it is not just Scotland that has the wildcat. Are you aware of any other countries in northern Europe that have a similar problem? Have any countr...