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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 16 November 2017

16 Nov 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Veterans and Armed Forces Community
Mountain, Edward Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I, too, thank the Government for bringing forward this motion for debate. Like Keith Brown and Maurice Corry, I am a veteran, and my son is a serving soldier.

This important debate comes at the time of the year when the country comes together to remember the sacrifices that have been made in the defence of others not only by soldiers, sailors and airmen, but by civilians. All veterans regularly remember the actions of friends and colleagues—not just on remembrance day but every day of the year.

On the recent remembrance Sunday, I remembered, as I always do, the tragic events of July 1982 in London, when my regiment and friends were targeted by the Irish Republican Army. I have mentioned that event before in the chamber, so I will not dwell on it. I also thought of those veterans who have put their lives on the line to defend the country and who are being hounded in their retirement and dragged through the courts to answer accusations that have already been investigated and the cases closed.

Dennis Hutchings is a former Life Guard, and one of many veterans who served in Northern Ireland during the troubles, who is facing legal action. I am mindful of what I say about this, but in June 1974, while on patrol in County Tyrone, Dennis came across an IRA unit of 10 men moving arms and ammunition. A firefight broke out, which resulted in four people being arrested and the remainder escaping. Just two days later, in the same area, his patrol encountered two men who ran off when they were challenged. One of the men who ran off was subsequently shot—it is with regard to that incident that Dennis has been charged, despite two investigations in which he was told that the matter was closed.

He tried to live a normal life in the same way that John Downey did post the bombing in Hyde Park of which he was accused. The difference is that Downey received a letter, which, admittedly, was sent in error, which said that he would not be charged with the bombing and that he is now free from prosecution.

I do not believe that it is right to judge the actions of armed forces in combat in the same way that we assess what is acceptable behaviour for people in normal society. As parliamentarians, we must fulfil our basic duty to our veterans by protecting them from such prosecutions.

A report by the UK Defence Committee stated:

“to subject former Service personnel to legal pursuit under the current arrangements is wholly oppressive and a denial of natural justice.”

I therefore welcome the Prime Minister’s commitment to make the new legacy bodies “fair, balanced and proportionate” and I welcome the UK Government’s announcement that the consultation document on the forthcoming draft Northern Ireland bill will include alternative ways forward, including a statute of limitations. Although I accept that it is a reserved matter, I hope that Scottish MPs of all parties will support that.

Although the issue of legacy investigations did not form part of Eric Fraser’s report, it is an important issue that veterans who have served on active duty have to face, which is why I mentioned it.

I commend the Scottish Government for all the action that it is taking to help veterans and I thank Eric Fraser for his report. It is difficult for anyone to dispute that we owe so much to those in uniform who, at our behest, have been prepared to put everything on the line. We need to stand beside them and with them and we need to have their back when the going gets tough, because we have no idea what they have faced or the stresses that they have to deal with.

I want to mention briefly the importance of regimental or unit charities that fundraise directly from the public. Those charities are so important not only for veterans, but for their families. The latter, who are often excluded from direct governmental support, benefit from the flexibility of charities. The Household Cavalry Foundation has already helped families and children of soldiers who have served in the Life Guards and the Blues and Royals, giving them help that they sadly cannot get from other sources. On average, the charity allocates £100,000 per year to helping soldiers and their families, which includes £30,000 to £40,000 paid directly to families and their children. That is but one charity, but the work that it undertakes for the Household Cavalry is replicated in nearly all units and regiments across the British Isles, as well as in the air force and the navy.

I urge the Scottish Government to help protect members of our armed services who have been cleared by military investigations from being prosecuted many years later for no apparent gain.

I commend the actions taken by the Scottish Government in its work with veterans and I urge the Government to continue to ensure that we repay our debt to our armed services without questioning the need to do so.

15:28  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08855, in the name of Keith Brown, on the Scottish Government’s support for veterans and the armed forces...
The Cabinet Secretary for Economy, Jobs and Fair Work (Keith Brown) SNP
As a nation, we are very proud of our military history. It is particularly timely to reflect on that history now, as the period of remembrance has just drawn...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
With reference to the veterans first point centres, does the minister have any comment to make on the closure of the first point centre in Grampian because o...
Keith Brown SNP
I am not sure from the nature of the question whether Mike Rumbles is aware of how veterans first point was established. The Westminster Government provided ...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for introducing the debate. Particularly at this time of year, it is right that we pay tribute to the important part that the a...
Mark Griffin (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I very much welcome the opportunity to speak in a debate about armed forces veterans and the work of the Scottish veterans commissioner, and to talk about so...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
We are now in the 100th year since the first world war drew to its conclusion. Therefore, it is appropriate to take just a little time in this important deba...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I, too, thank the Government for bringing forward this motion for debate. Like Keith Brown and Maurice Corry, I am a veteran, and my son is a serving soldier...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
In contributing to previous debates on this subject I talked about my late grandfather, who stimulated my interest in the military and veterans from a young ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
I have a bit of time in hand, so I am happy to be generous with speeches and interventions. 15:36
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I echo the welcome for the debate from members around the chamber. As I prepared for the debate, my thoughts turned to my grandfather, who died just over a ...
Christine Grahame (Midlothian South, Tweeddale and Lauderdale) (SNP) SNP
First, I associate myself with the cabinet secretary’s remarks about the disgraceful proposal to close Glencorse barracks in my constituency. We have debated...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
I am pleased to speak in this debate on Scottish Government support for our veterans, and I am happy to follow Christine Grahame, who mentioned Glencorse bar...
Bruce Crawford SNP
I am glad that Mike Rumbles raised the issue of sincerity, because I understand why he has directed his attack at the Scottish Government. Surely there is al...
Mike Rumbles LD
I will pursue that issue, and I will show members why I blame the Scottish Government in a moment. Let me focus on the service that was available in Grampi...
Tom Arthur (Renfrewshire South) (SNP) SNP
I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate and I thank Keith Brown and the Scottish Government for bringing the motion to Parliament. The debat...
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
I welcome the opportunity to speak on such an important issue and to commend our courageous veterans. My family does not have a long history in the armed fo...
Richard Lochhead (Moray) (SNP) SNP
Given that many of us were laying wreaths on Sunday to pay tribute to the fallen and to those who have served their country and defended its values, it is ap...
Keith Brown SNP
On the point that Richard Lochhead was making about the preponderance of veterans in his constituency, I add that they also tend to be extremely highly quali...
Richard Lochhead SNP
The cabinet secretary has made a very good point that I will certainly take away with me. It is clearly the case that our veterans play a crucial in Moray’s ...
Mark Griffin Lab
I start this closing speech by restating the point that I made in my opening speech about our continued support for our armed forces personnel and veterans. ...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to close the debate for the Scottish Conservatives. For the avoidance of doubt—if there was any—I confirm my party’s support for the Government ...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
As the convener of the cross-party group on women in enterprise, I invite the member to come along and hear from WES about its other work.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is an offer that you cannot refuse.
Liam Kerr Con
And I do not intend to refuse it. I would be delighted to come along. A number of members referred to employment and education, as did Mr Eric Fraser’s thir...
Christine Grahame SNP
It was a horse.
Liam Kerr Con
Yes, that was the joke. It was a horse. I am glad to see that Christine Grahame is listening. Demonstrating what not to do, Jock instructed the horse to mov...
Keith Brown SNP
I thank those members who have spoken for an interesting and stimulating debate on what, by consensus, seems to be regarded as an extremely important issue. ...
Maurice Corry Con
Christine Grahame’s point about Women’s Enterprise Scotland was very interesting. There is also Recruit for Spouses. I wonder whether there might be some sor...
Keith Brown SNP
I would be happy to look into that. As the member says, there is symmetry between Recruit for Spouses and Women’s Enterprise Scotland. There are also the two...