Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 09 November 2017
09 Nov 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Seat Belts on School Transport (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
I find myself in the same place as Peter Chapman in that I am unable to support amendment 2. During the committee’s scrutiny, we heard that the financial costs of the bill had been estimated and that they would be paid to local authorities without being ring fenced or accounted for separately. It appears from the evidence that we have recently received that only five of the 32 councils have not had seat belts fitted on secondary school transport, which means that 27 councils that have gone the whole hog and had seat belts fitted to such transport will be penalised or will not be seen to have done as well as they have done because five councils have not performed. It appeared to me, when questioning Gillian Martin, that we did not know what the costs would be of ensuring that there would be seat belts on school transport for secondary schools. However, as we have heard from Mr Chapman, £8.9 million has been set aside for the costs. I will give way to Gillian Martin if she can explain exactly what the costs will be for each of those five local authorities, so that I can understand that. Can I give way, Presiding Officer?
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Seat Belts on School Transport (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Group 1 is on commencement of section 1 duty. Amendment 1, in the name of Gillian Martin, is grouped with amendment 2.
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP)
SNP
The legislative measures in the bill have been arrived at using a partnership approach. The Scottish Government and I have consulted and listened. I am sure ...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD)
LD
Throughout the first two stages of the bill, when both officials and the Minister for Transport and the Islands appeared before the committee, I and other me...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green)
Green
We do not live in a perfect world. If we lived in a perfect world, we would not need this legislation, which is pragmatic, as are amendments 1 and 2. As Mike...
Peter Chapman (North East Scotland) (Con)
Con
I am glad that, at stage 2, my amendment to bring forward the date for the requirement of seat belts on secondary school buses was agreed to. However, Gillia...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con)
Con
I find myself in the same place as Peter Chapman in that I am unable to support amendment 2. During the committee’s scrutiny, we heard that the financial cos...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Yes, it is up to you and Gillian Martin.
Gillian Martin
SNP
I am happy to intervene. Mr Mountain asked about the costs, but I am unable to give an answer on that. What I have to clarify, though, is his statement that ...
Edward Mountain
Con
I thank the member for that answer, but this is the problem that we have met right the way through the scrutiny process: no exact costs can be given. The mem...
Edward Mountain
Con
I am sorry—members might sigh, but I feel this personally and I believe that the people of Scotland will feel the same as I do on the matter, so please do no...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab)
Lab
I think that we all agree that the bill is a good thing and that seat belts should be fitted on school buses as soon as possible. However, we are concerned t...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Does the member know, with regard to the current financial memorandum and the numbers that have been given to us in the Rural Economy and Connectivity Commit...
Rhoda Grant
Lab
The evidence that we received in the committee was that the money indicated in the financial memorandum was to be distributed to councils under the normal fo...
The Minister for Transport and the Islands (Humza Yousaf)
SNP
As members are aware, there is some history to the measures that we are debating. As Ms Martin said, they came about following the devolution of competence o...
Mike Rumbles
LD
This is a contentious point. Throughout stage 1 and stage 2, other members of the committee and I asked repeatedly how many councils had contracts in place a...
Humza Yousaf
SNP
Yes, of course I will reflect on that. I get the point that the member is making. We have a good constructive relationship with our partners in local authori...
Jamie Greene
Con
The minister talked about the glaring consequences of bringing forward the implementation of the legislation, but no one in the chamber has heard the specifi...
Humza Yousaf
SNP
The costs are in the financial memorandum, but if the member is asking specifically about the cost of breaking contracts, I have to say that, if the contract...
Edward Mountain
Con
Will the minister give way?
Humza Yousaf
SNP
Let me make some progress. I agree with the sentiment that has been expressed by members, including Mr Chapman and Mr Mountain, that all of us in the chambe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I call Gillian Martin to wind up and press or withdraw amendment 1.
Gillian Martin
SNP
I move my amendment—
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
No. You need to wind up and then tell the chamber whether you are pressing or withdrawing your amendment. I was trying to be helpful, but I obviously confuse...
Gillian Martin
SNP
As you will know, Presiding Officer, this is the first time I have done this. I would like to press amendment 1. I do not need to make a winding-up speech.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The question is, that amendment 1 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There will be a division and, as this is the first division at stage 3, I will suspend the meeting for five minutes. 15:25 Meeting suspended. 15:31 On resu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The question is, that amendment 1 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There will be a division. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Art...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
The result of the division is: For 98, Against 0, Abstentions 0. Amendment 1 agreed to. Section 4—Annual compliance statement