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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 09 November 2017

09 Nov 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Seat Belts on School Transport (Scotland) Bill: Stage 3
Martin, Gillian SNP Aberdeenshire East Watch on SPTV

The legislative measures in the bill have been arrived at using a partnership approach. The Scottish Government and I have consulted and listened. I am sure that, to all those members who are in the chamber, the term “school transport” appears to be a straightforward phrase that does exactly what it says on the tin. However, as I and, I am sure, the members of the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee, can attest to, this is a deceptively nuanced area with various overlapping factors and delivery bodies.

I will let the Minister for Transport and the Islands outline in more detail the significant engagement that the Scottish Government undertook during the devolution of powers that have allowed the introduction of this bill. Collaboration has been key to ensuring that the legislative proposals are practical and fit for purpose. What we heard loud and clear was that a phased approach to introduction was necessary. It became apparent that it would take longer for councils to adapt and absorb the changes for secondary school transport. In general, secondary schools use more double-decker buses, which are exactly the type of vehicle without seat belts that the bill aims to target. That is why Scottish ministers announced implementation dates of 2018 for primary school transport and 2021 for secondary schools. School authorities have been working towards those timescales and councils have in good faith signed contracts based on them.

At stage 2, we were aware that accelerating implementation dates for secondary provision could lead to contracts having to be broken or renegotiated. Inevitably, that would lead to significant practical, financial and, potentially, legal consequences. We have now canvassed local government and know that five councils find themselves in such a situation: Falkirk Council, Glasgow City Council, West Lothian Council, Stirling Council and Clackmannanshire Council have all signed contracts beyond 2018. Given the lack of precedent of having to renegotiate or to break and retender such contracts, it is not straightforward to forecast the cost implications. However, we are aware that there would be stark and troublesome ramifications for those concerned.

Over the bill's parliamentary passage, we have listened to the views of MSPs that cost forecasts with regard to other elements were too high. The Scottish Government therefore helped to prepare the supplementary financial memorandum, which addresses those concerns and places a formal review period to help mitigate costs. Therefore, to accelerate commencement dates and force such uncertain and problematic consequences does not seem necessary or sensible to me, especially in times of challenging resources for local government. While I absolutely understand the motivation for implementing these safety measures for young people as quickly as possible, it is incumbent on us to be mindful of the wider backdrop. That is why I am moving amendment 2 to allow for a long-stop date for commencement in 2021 for school authorities that have entered into such contracts. The amendment is specifically to address the issues that I have outlined, rather than being intended to offer any sort of catch-all exemption for such school authorities. As such, it has been deliberately drafted as narrowly as possible to allow regulations on commencement to make only a limited exception to the general 2018 commencement that was agreed to at stage 2.

Members may remember that we listened to the views of Parliament on the importance of the legal requirement that covers vehicles that are used for school trips. My amendment on that gained approval at stage 2. Under my amendments today, vehicles that are used for school excursions would still be subject to the 2018 commencement date. The exemption here applies only to home-to-school transport.

Amendment 2 would not allow school authorities to enter into further contracts beyond the date on which the bill receives royal assent that do not meet the new legal requirement in section 1 to have seat belts fitted. There is no possible loophole for school authorities, and the exemption relates only to pre-existing contracts at royal assent. Furthermore, the amendment relates only to transport for secondary school, meaning that provision for primary school transport will not be exempt and will therefore be subject to the accelerated 2018 commencement date. Consequentially, amendment 1 reinstates the term “secondary education” in the list of definitions in the bill taken from the Education (Scotland) Act 1980.

Members may remember that the Rural Economy and Connectivity Committee’s stage 1 report endorsed the commencement dates that were originally committed to for the bill as “reasonable and practicable”. Now that we know the blatant implications of those dates for a number of local authorities, there seems to be an even more compelling case for that approach and for a phased commencement of the bill, but with that phasing being carefully limited, as I described, and with an ultimate deadline of 2021 in order to respect the decision that this Parliament took at stage 2.

I move amendment 1.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is stage 3 proceedings on the Seat Belts on School Transport (Scotland) Bill. In dealing with the amendments, members should have t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Group 1 is on commencement of section 1 duty. Amendment 1, in the name of Gillian Martin, is grouped with amendment 2.
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
The legislative measures in the bill have been arrived at using a partnership approach. The Scottish Government and I have consulted and listened. I am sure ...
Mike Rumbles (North East Scotland) (LD) LD
Throughout the first two stages of the bill, when both officials and the Minister for Transport and the Islands appeared before the committee, I and other me...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
We do not live in a perfect world. If we lived in a perfect world, we would not need this legislation, which is pragmatic, as are amendments 1 and 2. As Mike...
Peter Chapman (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I am glad that, at stage 2, my amendment to bring forward the date for the requirement of seat belts on secondary school buses was agreed to. However, Gillia...
Edward Mountain (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I find myself in the same place as Peter Chapman in that I am unable to support amendment 2. During the committee’s scrutiny, we heard that the financial cos...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Yes, it is up to you and Gillian Martin.
Gillian Martin SNP
I am happy to intervene. Mr Mountain asked about the costs, but I am unable to give an answer on that. What I have to clarify, though, is his statement that ...
Edward Mountain Con
I thank the member for that answer, but this is the problem that we have met right the way through the scrutiny process: no exact costs can be given. The mem...
Edward Mountain Con
I am sorry—members might sigh, but I feel this personally and I believe that the people of Scotland will feel the same as I do on the matter, so please do no...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I think that we all agree that the bill is a good thing and that seat belts should be fitted on school buses as soon as possible. However, we are concerned t...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the member know, with regard to the current financial memorandum and the numbers that have been given to us in the Rural Economy and Connectivity Commit...
Rhoda Grant Lab
The evidence that we received in the committee was that the money indicated in the financial memorandum was to be distributed to councils under the normal fo...
The Minister for Transport and the Islands (Humza Yousaf) SNP
As members are aware, there is some history to the measures that we are debating. As Ms Martin said, they came about following the devolution of competence o...
Mike Rumbles LD
This is a contentious point. Throughout stage 1 and stage 2, other members of the committee and I asked repeatedly how many councils had contracts in place a...
Humza Yousaf SNP
Yes, of course I will reflect on that. I get the point that the member is making. We have a good constructive relationship with our partners in local authori...
Jamie Greene Con
The minister talked about the glaring consequences of bringing forward the implementation of the legislation, but no one in the chamber has heard the specifi...
Humza Yousaf SNP
The costs are in the financial memorandum, but if the member is asking specifically about the cost of breaking contracts, I have to say that, if the contract...
Edward Mountain Con
Will the minister give way?
Humza Yousaf SNP
Let me make some progress. I agree with the sentiment that has been expressed by members, including Mr Chapman and Mr Mountain, that all of us in the chambe...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Gillian Martin to wind up and press or withdraw amendment 1.
Gillian Martin SNP
I move my amendment—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
No. You need to wind up and then tell the chamber whether you are pressing or withdrawing your amendment. I was trying to be helpful, but I obviously confuse...
Gillian Martin SNP
As you will know, Presiding Officer, this is the first time I have done this. I would like to press amendment 1. I do not need to make a winding-up speech.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The question is, that amendment 1 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There will be a division and, as this is the first division at stage 3, I will suspend the meeting for five minutes. 15:25 Meeting suspended. 15:31 On resu...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The question is, that amendment 1 be agreed to. Are we agreed? Members: No.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There will be a division. For Adam, George (Paisley) (SNP) Adamson, Clare (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) Allan, Alasdair (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP) Art...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The result of the division is: For 98, Against 0, Abstentions 0. Amendment 1 agreed to. Section 4—Annual compliance statement