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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 September 2017

28 Sep 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Finnie, John Green Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

A number of speakers have talked about filling a gap. Indeed, Scottish Women’s Aid mentioned that in its briefing. I thank it and other organisations for their briefings.

The cabinet secretary used the phrase “the next important step”. The bill is an important step, but there is further to go. That has been alluded to in members’ comments about legislating in respect of children.

The bill is about a course of conduct that includes psychological abuse. That is laid out in section 2. It is important that the list is non-exhaustive because it remains open for the courts to decide on the matter.

I align myself with some of the comments from, I think, Claire Baker, who talked about the important role that domestic abuse courts can play. I have long been an advocate of rolling out that approach. People need to have a clear understanding that it is about the timetabling of events rather than new buildings. It is about scheduling and people working together, which is surely what we want in relation to domestic abuse.

I will read one part of the Scottish Women’s Aid briefing that I thought was particularly significant:

“The new law offers a policy sea change by focusing our criminal justice response on the actions of the perpetrator rather than the circumstances of the victim. By doing so, it will enable better understandings of domestic abuse and its impact on women, children, and young people in our communities, institutions, and country.”

To inform our inquiry into the bill, we heard testimony, as a number of members have mentioned. Indeed, in our report, we say that we

“received compelling and persuasive evidence that psychological abuse within a relationship or by an ex-partner can cause immense and enduring trauma and harm.”

Elsewhere in the report, that evidence is referred to as

“powerful and moving private testimony”.

I express my great respect for those women.

Domestic abuse is primarily, although not exclusively, gender-based violence. It is important to say that confidentiality must be respected but, in some respects, it is disappointing because those women can do far more to explain the need for the bill and more measures than any politician could. Great thanks are due to them. They showed courage for a number of reasons. They are from a wide range of backgrounds and geographies, and many of them had to relocate. That affected the relationship not only with the partner but with the wider family.

Laws are intended to reflect society’s views on a given issue. As a number of members have said, there has been a welcome change in relation to domestic abuse, but we have a way to go.

I will touch on how the police will respond to the bill. Detective Chief Superintendent Boal said that there was nothing new in it. That is correct. The change that has taken place in how the police respond to historical issues of violence will not be reflected in their initial reaction when they attend the scene of an allegation. The subsequent inquiry will unearth it. Police Scotland has done some tremendous work on serial abusers whose violence has been visited on not only one female victim or one household but a series of them, sometimes over decades. Some of the salutary sentences rightly reflect the damage that those abusers have done to a number of lives. Therefore, I have every confidence that the police, working with the prosecutors, can properly address the matter. Judgments will always have to be made, but that is the case with every piece of legislation. We need not fear anything about that.

Another term that is used in the report is “hard to reach groups”. The survivors from whom we heard and the people whom the bill will assist, should it be passed—I sincerely hope that it will be—have been hard to reach. They have felt abandoned. People have talked about the effect that the criminal justice system has on victims. It should support and help them, not victimise them further.

I appreciate that time is limited, but it is important to quote some of the evidence from Children 1st, which other members also covered. It talks about the need for a

“mandatory duty on the court to consider whether to impose a non-harassment order that includes a child in all cases where the statutory aggravation in relation to a child is applied.”

That is important. If we are going to recognise that effect in the aggravation, it should be picked up in the order. That is important for another reason, too. It is a well-documented fact that child contact is an occasion when psychological abuse continues. I hope that that matter will be looked at as we go forward.

Scottish Women’s Aid commented that we should

“ensure that abusive behaviour dealt with by the criminal courts is regarded as prima facie evidence of unsuitability for contact with a child”.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We are perhaps slightly ahead of where people would expect us to be. I am glad that virtually all the members whom we expected are here for the next debate. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Everyone in the chamber is aware that domestic abuse blights the lives of too many people in Scotland. Domestic abuse might not be obvious, because it is lar...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for the way in which he has set out the proposition that is under scrutiny. He will be aware that the Justice Committe...
Michael Matheson SNP
I will seek to do so. As we said in our response to the committee’s report, we believe that we have set the bar at the right level. Our response reinforces t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s thanking of all the groups that have contributed to the bill. Scottish Women’s Aid and Children 1st have both called for th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I ask the cabinet secretary to address that and to draw his remarks to a conclusion.
Michael Matheson SNP
We have responded to the committee by setting out that the approach that we will take will be to reform child welfare legislation, which will allow us to con...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee in this important debate. The committee took evidence on the bill over six meetings, earlier this y...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo the cabinet secretary and the convener of the Justice Committee in thanking everyone who gave evidence to the committee as well as the clerks and the ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Last year, Scottish Women’s Aid reached its 40th year. Its work, from local groups providing support and refuge for women and children who are facing domesti...
Mairi Gougeon (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
It is a privilege to speak in this debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, because it is a vital piece of legislation to come before Parliament. The b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before I call Maurice Corry, I remind everybody that speeches should be of four minutes but there is a reasonable time in hand for members to take interventi...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am glad to have the opportunity to take part in this very important debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. I, too, acknowledge and thank the organis...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I agree with Maurice Corry about training, but what we really need is training for cultural change. For many years, domestic violence—I do not like that titl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have some time in hand, so I can give members a little leeway—30 seconds. I know that that does not sound like much but, as nobody is intervening, I have t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I would be delighted to assist you in that effort, Presiding Officer. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. The bill is about improving the justice syste...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Today is a historic day, because the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill will, for the first time, introduce provisions on psychological abuse into the repugnant ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
As I said, there is some time in hand, so members can say a little more. 16:10
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
A number of speakers have talked about filling a gap. Indeed, Scottish Women’s Aid mentioned that in its briefing. I thank it and other organisations for the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I gave you an extra minute, Mr Finnie, so you should conclude now, please.
John Finnie Green
Many thanks. I lend the bill my full support. 16:15
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As others have said, psychological abuse within a relationship or by an ex-partner can cause immense and enduring trauma and harm. As a member of the Justice...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I will start by confirming that the Scottish Liberal Democrats unequivocally support this bill to tackle controlling and coercive domestic abuse, although I ...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be speaking in the debate and am immensely proud that the Justice Committee unanimously agreed to the principles of the bill. How often do we...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Close and intimate personal relationships are an integral part of our lives. Sharing life with a husband or wife, for example, learning more about each other...
John Finnie Green
Does Gordon Lindhurst accept that we must take cognisance of the judgment of the individual who chooses to pick up the phone and say “I require the police’s ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Yes, of course. It is always the judgment of the individual whether to pick up the phone and call the police. I do not demur from that, at all.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gordon Lindhurst Con
No. We can contrast this Scottish bill’s classification of behaviour as being coercive or controlling even when it has happened on only two occasions with t...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
The poet and domestic abuse survivor Christy Ann Martine wrote this: “You can’t keep her in a cage, clip her wings, tell her lies, say that fragile birds ...