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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 November 2017

02 Nov 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inclusive Education

I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, as I am the former head of service of Stable Life, a charity that works with children and young people who have additional support needs.

I have listened closely to the contributions this afternoon. They have been thoughtful and informed and, most pleasingly, have shown cross-party commitment to recognising and addressing the challenges that mainstreaming can bring. This is, without doubt, a complex and multifaceted debate, but it is a debate that we must have, and we must be willing to listen to and address uncomfortable and difficult evidence, because it is a question that we must get right. We owe that to our children and young people, to their parents, and to all the teachers, support staff and partner organisations that strive day after day to deliver inclusive and supportive education for every child.

I welcome the cabinet secretary’s announcement, particularly on the independent research into the experiences of teachers, pupils and parents.

Liz Smith and Iain Gray, who are former teachers themselves, captured the plurality of the issues and implications that arise from the presumption of mainstreaming. Iain Gray particularly reminded us that young people who have additional needs are not asking us for something special. They are merely asking for the same opportunities that every other child has. We need to bear that in mind as we go through the challenges that we are going to face.

Liz Smith drew our attention to the evidence of trainee teachers to the Education and Skills Committee in May this year. That evidence painted an alarming picture of inadequate provision at teacher training level and of new teachers feeling isolated and overwhelmed in the classroom. One young probationary teacher said:

“We had all these wonderful theories thrown at us, but there was no contextualisation and no specific training on autism, dyslexia or dyspraxia—there was absolutely nothing.”—[Official Report, Education and Skills Committee, 10 May 2017; c 13.]

One fully qualified teacher went further, saying:

“We are seeing NQTs coming out who are really quite frightened by some of the behaviours that they see in classrooms and are very unclear about how to begin approaching that, never mind planning a personal learning programme.”—[Official Report, Education and Skills Committee, 10 May 2017; c 40.]

That was an experienced teacher crying out for help from the Scottish Government, and I hope that such pleas will not fall on deaf ears.

We have heard many of our colleagues—Iain Gray, Jenny Gilruth, Bob Doris, Tavish Scott, Ross Greer, Graeme Dey and many others—recognise that issue in their speeches. As many teachers feel cast adrift as they endeavour to deliver a bespoke education to every child, Enable tells us that 98 per cent of the education workforce surveyed felt that teacher training does not adequately prepare them for teaching young people who have additional support needs. We have today heard a lot of praise for Enable’s work and I add my voice to that, because Enable captured very well some of the challenges that we face. This is the reality on the ground. Without appropriate training and adequate resources, a teacher cannot meet the specific needs of ASN children, and their education will suffer as a result.

I recognise the words of the cabinet secretary and the minister when they talk about the increase in good results from ASN children, but the numbers have increased and some of the partners who work with them are often involved in delivering some of those good results. It takes a lot of people to get ASN children well supported and to get good results for them.

As Bob Doris identified in his excellent speech, the right support at the outset could mean that children could be retained in mainstream education. It is imperative that we do not put the criteria up as a barrier to addressing children’s needs. That is the paradox that we face that is at the heart of the Government’s support for mainstreaming.

The guidance talks about the importance of capacity building in mainstreaming, and the Government offers warm words about employed specialist support staff and a focus on the individual needs of the child. However, in the context of the recent cuts, such words sometimes seem hollow. As Annie Wells pointed out, the number of learning support staff in primary schools has been cut by 19 per cent over the past four years, and by 20 per cent in secondary schools in the same period. The number of behavioural support staff in primary schools has been cut by 58 per cent.

Bob Doris and Oliver Mundell powerfully evoked examples of informal exclusion and the troubling effect that that can have in isolating ASN children—in substance, if not in name. We need a good support staff to prevent that. A presumption of mainstreaming should not be a device to cut off access to a range of opportunities, including in special schools, and it should not be a presumption against special provision. There is a danger that, in its enthusiasm to create equity, the Government’s actions can give rise to an inequitable system that removes the rights of individual choice. There should be a choice, which must always be underpinned by the best interests of the child and their development.

That point was amplified by the comments of Jeremy Balfour, who rightly reinforced the fundamental need to ensure that inclusion is not just about what happens in the classroom and that we must keep the individual child at the centre of decision making. He also captured the issue about the background of the child not dictating their educational experiences and opportunities, and that point was reinforced in John Mason’s speech.

I am going to be way too quick, because the Presiding Officer gave me lots of extra time. [Interruption.]

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08558, in the name of John Swinney, on the presumption of mainstreaming.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
A commitment to and belief in inclusive education have underpinned the approach to education policy and legislation in the Scottish Parliament since 2000. Th...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I very much welcome the opportunity to debate this issue, and I warmly welcome the Scottish Government initiatives that have been announced this afternoon. W...
John Swinney SNP
Just for completeness, on Liz Smith’s analysis of the statistics, does she accept that, within the much expanded number of young people identified with speci...
Liz Smith Con
Yes, I absolutely accept that, and I hope that we can make progress exactly on the accuracy of the data and its relevant application. When the Education and ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary is absolutely right to place today’s consultation in the context of the development of the policy and legislative framework on disabili...
The Minister for Childcare and Early Years (Mark McDonald) SNP
I hear the point that Mr Gray is making, but he will have heard the Deputy First Minister highlight the significant improvement that there has been in outcom...
Iain Gray Lab
That is very much to the credit of our teachers and additional support needs workers who remain in the system. However, we cannot ignore the fact that, as En...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP
I remind members that I am the parliamentary liaison officer for the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills. As we have heard, the presumption of mainst...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I apologise to you, Presiding Officer, and to members in the chamber, because I must leave early tonight to catch the evening plane home. Tomorrow, one of t...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I have a very strong constituency interest in this area, because I am working with a number of families with children of primary school age who are on the au...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
On that final, final, final point, I call Oliver Mundell. 15:22
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
On this occasion, I would have been quite happy to give Bob Doris my six minutes because he is making the same points that I hear about in my constituency ma...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I warmly welcome the opportunity to discuss mainstreaming in education in the chamber this afternoon. It was of course a Labour Scottish Government that intr...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I am glad to be part of this debate for a number of reasons that will become clear as my speech progresses. I was pleased to hear from the Deputy First Mini...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, you will find this hard to believe, but I started school in 1972—and yes, the years have been kind. I am very fortunate that where we live...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
In March, I led a members’ business debate on the subject of the presumption of mainstreaming, as addressed in the excellent Enable Scotland report “#IncludE...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Delivering an inclusive educational environmental for all speaks directly to the kind of society that we aspire to be. As other members, including Jenny Gilr...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be able to take part in the debate, as the presumption of mainstreaming has been a topic that has come up a fair number of times with my cons...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Thank you very much, Mr Mason. I call Monica Lennon, to be followed by Ruth Maguire. You can have an extra 30 or 40 seconds. Isn’t that exciting? 16:06
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
You have made my day, Presiding Officer. As many MSPs from across Parliament have, I have been raising concerns with the Scottish Government about the decli...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Ruth Maguire also has a little extra time. 16:13
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
The commitment of Parliament to delivering inclusive education is not in doubt. However, as MSPs—and as parents, friends and family members—we are all aware ...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Deciding the best route for any child through education will always be tough. For every change in educational thought there will always be a question mark ov...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I support the motion and congratulate the Parliament and all Administrations on the presumption of mainstreaming. All children and young people are entitled...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
There was much in the cabinet secretary’s opening remarks with which we can all agree. He was absolutely right to emphasise the continuity of this Parliament...
John Swinney SNP
That is a big breakthrough. Laughter.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I know. I thought that the cabinet secretary would think so. Labour agrees with and supports much of what is before us today, and we will vote accordingly. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Michelle Ballantyne to close for the Conservatives. You have a generous nine minutes. 16:39
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, as I am the former head of service of Stable Life, a charity that works with children and young peo...