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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 02 November 2017

02 Nov 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Inclusive Education

The cabinet secretary is absolutely right to place today’s consultation in the context of the development of the policy and legislative framework on disability issues, generally, and additional needs education, specifically, across almost 20 years and across different Administrations. I am honestly not sure how world leading we are on this, but we have certainly come a long way. When the Scottish Parliament began in 1999, far too many of Scotland’s disabled people still lived in long-stay hospital accommodation, excluded not just from mainstream education but from the community altogether. It is hard to imagine that that was considered the norm. The ability to live, participate and learn in the community is now a right that is supported across the chamber and, indeed, across wider society.

One key early moment in that regard was the first learning disability strategy in the Scottish Parliament, and its title, “The same as you?”, encapsulates the principle that we strive for. We must disabuse ourselves of the idea that people with particular needs, physical or otherwise, are asking for something special and extra. The truth is that they want the same things as we all do: to live freely and to have every possible chance to make the most of their lives; and their right to a home, to healthcare and—yes—to an education is no less valid than anyone else’s.

No matter how well we think we have done, we have to acknowledge that we have much further to go, especially in areas such as employment and—yes—education. A presumption of mainstreaming in schools is exactly where the principle of being the same as you takes us in education, but, as the education secretary said—to his credit—in his introduction to the guidance, the measure of that cannot simply be children’s presence in a mainstream school; it is the opportunities in our schools, not just the desks in the classroom, that we are obliged to open up to all.

I have used this example before in debate, but it encapsulates the issue that we are discussing. Many years ago, I taught science in this city at Gracemount secondary school, which in those days shared a campus with Kaimes school for the partially sighted. Kaimes pupils attended some mainstream classes as well as specialist provision, which is one of the models that Mr Swinney talked about and that is in the document.

In my science class, I had one or two pupils with particular needs. In recognition of those circumstances, class sizes were low—14 or so—so I was able to ensure that I gave the extra support required. Quite often, I was supported in my classroom by a specialist teacher from Kaimes school. It was mainstreaming and it worked. As a young teacher starting out, I felt a professional pride in our success.

In the early 1980s, I spent a couple of years working abroad and, when I returned, things had changed. As now, it was a time of cuts and, instead of one or two, there were three, four or sometimes five partially sighted pupils in my classes, all of which were at the maximum class size of 21. There was no specialist support. The truth was that there was no space to give additional needs pupils any additional support at all—they were at a desk in my classroom but not included in my class. I felt guilty about that, but needs must. There was pressure on us—curricular change, new exams, bigger classes all round. Plus ça change.

Mainstreaming may be a much more mainstream idea today, but resources are still at a premium. Since 2010, we have seen a 153 per cent increase in the number of pupils who are identified as having additional support needs, which cannot all be explained by the inclusion of those with temporary or low-level needs. At the same time, the number of ASN support staff is down by 8 per cent and the number of learning support teachers has dropped by 13 per cent. The Scottish children’s services coalition has calculated that spend per pupil on additional support for learning was £4,276 in 2012-13 but only £3,817 in 2015-16. There is more need but less provision.

Clearly, more responsibility for ASL will fall squarely on teachers in general, yet Enable’s surveys tell us that 98 per cent of the education workforce do not feel that teacher training adequately prepares teachers for that role. It is 30 years since I failed those partially sighted pupils at Gracemount high school, but we still seem to be making some of the same mistakes.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08558, in the name of John Swinney, on the presumption of mainstreaming.
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
A commitment to and belief in inclusive education have underpinned the approach to education policy and legislation in the Scottish Parliament since 2000. Th...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I very much welcome the opportunity to debate this issue, and I warmly welcome the Scottish Government initiatives that have been announced this afternoon. W...
John Swinney SNP
Just for completeness, on Liz Smith’s analysis of the statistics, does she accept that, within the much expanded number of young people identified with speci...
Liz Smith Con
Yes, I absolutely accept that, and I hope that we can make progress exactly on the accuracy of the data and its relevant application. When the Education and ...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
The cabinet secretary is absolutely right to place today’s consultation in the context of the development of the policy and legislative framework on disabili...
The Minister for Childcare and Early Years (Mark McDonald) SNP
I hear the point that Mr Gray is making, but he will have heard the Deputy First Minister highlight the significant improvement that there has been in outcom...
Iain Gray Lab
That is very much to the credit of our teachers and additional support needs workers who remain in the system. However, we cannot ignore the fact that, as En...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP
I remind members that I am the parliamentary liaison officer for the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills. As we have heard, the presumption of mainst...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
I apologise to you, Presiding Officer, and to members in the chamber, because I must leave early tonight to catch the evening plane home. Tomorrow, one of t...
Bob Doris (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (SNP) SNP
I have a very strong constituency interest in this area, because I am working with a number of families with children of primary school age who are on the au...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
On that final, final, final point, I call Oliver Mundell. 15:22
Oliver Mundell (Dumfriesshire) (Con) Con
On this occasion, I would have been quite happy to give Bob Doris my six minutes because he is making the same points that I hear about in my constituency ma...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
I warmly welcome the opportunity to discuss mainstreaming in education in the chamber this afternoon. It was of course a Labour Scottish Government that intr...
George Adam (Paisley) (SNP) SNP
I am glad to be part of this debate for a number of reasons that will become clear as my speech progresses. I was pleased to hear from the Deputy First Mini...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, you will find this hard to believe, but I started school in 1972—and yes, the years have been kind. I am very fortunate that where we live...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
In March, I led a members’ business debate on the subject of the presumption of mainstreaming, as addressed in the excellent Enable Scotland report “#IncludE...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Delivering an inclusive educational environmental for all speaks directly to the kind of society that we aspire to be. As other members, including Jenny Gilr...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be able to take part in the debate, as the presumption of mainstreaming has been a topic that has come up a fair number of times with my cons...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Thank you very much, Mr Mason. I call Monica Lennon, to be followed by Ruth Maguire. You can have an extra 30 or 40 seconds. Isn’t that exciting? 16:06
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
You have made my day, Presiding Officer. As many MSPs from across Parliament have, I have been raising concerns with the Scottish Government about the decli...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Ruth Maguire also has a little extra time. 16:13
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
The commitment of Parliament to delivering inclusive education is not in doubt. However, as MSPs—and as parents, friends and family members—we are all aware ...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Deciding the best route for any child through education will always be tough. For every change in educational thought there will always be a question mark ov...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I support the motion and congratulate the Parliament and all Administrations on the presumption of mainstreaming. All children and young people are entitled...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
There was much in the cabinet secretary’s opening remarks with which we can all agree. He was absolutely right to emphasise the continuity of this Parliament...
John Swinney SNP
That is a big breakthrough. Laughter.
Daniel Johnson Lab
I know. I thought that the cabinet secretary would think so. Labour agrees with and supports much of what is before us today, and we will vote accordingly. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Michelle Ballantyne to close for the Conservatives. You have a generous nine minutes. 16:39
Michelle Ballantyne (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I refer members to my entry in the register of interests, as I am the former head of service of Stable Life, a charity that works with children and young peo...