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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 October 2017

05 Oct 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I thank Graeme Dey and his colleagues on the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee for the work that they have done.

I recognise the overwhelming support in favour of a ban on the use of wild animals in circuses, and the Liberal Democrats will gladly support the bill’s general principles later today. We welcome the bill but, as many others have identified, we believe that there is room and considerable scope for improvement of it. The committee has helpfully highlighted a number of those areas.

The cabinet secretary reiterated the ethical basis for the ban. There are clearly ethical reasons for such a ban, but the committee is right to raise awareness of the shortcomings of that approach. Furthermore, the ethical basis is difficult to justify in the light of the evidence, which supports a welfare-based approach.

The British Veterinary Association has reminded us that the welfare of animals in circuses is emblematic of how we treat all animals that are under the care of humans. At stage 2, when the detailed scrutiny of legislation gets under way in earnest, considerable work has to be done in that regard. Similarly, notwithstanding the points in the cabinet secretary’s speech, more work is needed to address the ethical and welfare considerations that arise from the use of wild animals in static circuses—Mark Ruskell and others picked up that point.

The Scottish Government relied on the premise that ethical objections to the use of wild animals in travelling circuses do not apply to the same extent to other types of animal performance or display. The cabinet secretary may be justified in that assertion but, to date, not enough evidence has been set out clearly or compellingly.

The problem to which colleagues on the committee have drawn the most attention, as anyone who reads the committee’s report will see, is with the definitions of “circus”, “circus operator” and “wild animals”. In her opening speech, the cabinet secretary sought to offer reassurance on those definitions again but, at the moment, it looks as if the bill will open up a bit of a paradise for lawyers rather than provide suitable and appropriate protection for animals in circuses.

It is critical that we get the definitions right, not least—as David Stewart and others emphasised—because we need to ensure that local authorities, which will be left to enforce the new restrictions, have the clarity that they require. We do not want decisions to be challenged in court, and the matter will fall to local authorities in the first instance. Whether the issues should be dealt with in the bill or in subsequent guidance, most of the work that needs to be done at stage 2 will focus on them.

The bill and the proposals that it seeks to introduce are welcome. They reflect our values as a society and the importance that we attach to the high standards of animal welfare that we want to see. I look forward to supporting the bill’s general principles at decision time.

15:56  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08062, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on stage 1 of the Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (Scotlan...
The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
I first thank the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee for its consideration of the bill. The committee took a great deal of evidence from a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I call Graeme Dey, convener of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, to speak on behalf of the committee. ...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak in the debate on behalf of the committee. I thank the members of the committee for their efforts in producing the unanimous report on...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Yes. We have a little time in hand.
Graeme Dey SNP
On the day on which the bill was introduced, the cabinet secretary wrote to the committee to highlight the intention to review the operation of the Performin...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry, cabinet secretary—the member must wind up now. Interruption. That is a fearsome look you are giving me, cabinet secretary, but I think that we re...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
I would just like to ask my colleague whether he would seriously have preferred to have delayed all this for a number of years, because that would be the con...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Briefly, convener.
Graeme Dey SNP
As the cabinet secretary knows, I am reflecting the views of the whole committee, not just my own. I take her point on board, but that view was reached unani...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I commend the committee’s report and the convener’s comments, which we have just heard. The Scottish Conservatives will support the Government’s motion, and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you very much, Mr Cameron. I hope that we have run out of animal references, but we probably have not. I call David Stewart to open on behalf of Labour...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I rise to speak in support of the general principles of the bill. However, a number of recommendations that have been proposed ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We come to the open debate, and I ask for speeches of four minutes. One member who is due to speak has forgotten to press their request-to-speak button—I wil...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am a member of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, which is responsible for scrutinising the bill, and I thank the members, the cler...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am afraid that you must conclude now.
Emma Harper SNP
I will conclude, Presiding Officer. Nineteen countries have already banned it, so it is time for Scotland to lead the way for the rest of the UK.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Sometimes I do not win. Laughter. 15:37
Peter Chapman (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The debate is about wild animals, so for once I do not need to declare an interest. Laughter. To be honest, when I am in a pen with a newly calved coo, I som...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
As an elected parliamentarian and councillor, I have been pleased to make links over the years with the Scottish Showmen’s Guild. On a number of occasions, I...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Presiding Officer, as your deputy on the cross-party group on animal welfare, it is a privilege to speak in a debate that I hope will take Scotland a step fo...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
As a member of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, I join the convener in thanking all the stakeholders who gave evidence and the cler...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Graeme Dey and his colleagues on the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee for the work that they have done. I recognise the overwhe...
Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the ECCLR Committee, I am pleased to contribute to the debate, not least because it is a further step towards Scotland leading the way for the...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as an honorary member of the British Veterinary Association. The Scottish Conservative Party and I welcome the bill’s general principl...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
It is great to have this debate in the chamber after lengthy discussions in committee. We spent a number of hours taking evidence on and discussing the bill—...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Yesterday was world animal welfare day. As we have heard this afternoon, we should all work together to sharpen the bill and to develop further protections f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Finlay Carson. You can have a generous six minutes, Mr Carson—but not too generous. 16:13
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Today’s debate has been constructive with many valid and important points made about the bill. The committee convener addressed concerns over definitions, wh...