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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 05 October 2017

05 Oct 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Cameron, Donald Con Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I commend the committee’s report and the convener’s comments, which we have just heard. The Scottish Conservatives will support the Government’s motion, and I want to reiterate many of the points that the convener has already made.

However, before I do so, I feel it necessary to point out that it is customary for the Government to respond in writing to the committee’s report prior to the stage 1 debate. Such a letter arrived in my email inbox shortly after 9 o’clock this morning, but, with the greatest respect, I think that a 14-page letter containing detailed points and arriving a mere six hours or so before the debate is insufficient. The Government’s failure to give adequate notice of a position that committee members can analyse and scrutinise properly respects neither the committee nor the wider work of the Parliament. Given that the timetable to which we are operating on the bill is being driven by the Government, not the committee, having a stage 1 debate with only the committee report to go on and limited time to digest the Government’s lengthy response means, inevitably, that the debate itself is prejudiced. I, for one, have simply not had enough time in the course of the day to go through the Government’s letter in detail.

That aside, I want, first, to assure the chamber that the Scottish Conservatives are committed to the highest standards of animal welfare. We are clear that those who abuse and inflict cruelty on animals should be punished in accordance with the law. The Scottish Conservatives support a ban on the use of wild animals in travelling circuses on ethical and animal welfare grounds. We do not believe that the majority of the public are either comfortable or satisfied with that on-going practice, albeit that there is no evidence that such a practice is under way in Scotland at this time.

The Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (Scotland) Bill was discussed at a committee meeting on 27 June. As I did not join the committee until after that date, I was not there in person, but my colleagues Finlay Carson, Maurice Golden and Alexander Burnett were present. At that meeting, the committee’s Conservative members made it clear to the cabinet secretary that, in tackling the welfare of wild animals in travelling circuses, the bill did not go far enough; it needed to tackle the welfare of animals in static ones, too.

Let me move on to the bill. We support the principles behind the bill, but I regret to say that it requires much improvement. Broad criticisms of the bill include that it risks criminalising shows and events that have a good track record of animal welfare. Many examples of such events have been given, but they include reindeer at Christmas markets, falconry displays and llamas at the Royal Highland Show. This issue is a major concern across the country, but particularly for those of us who represent rural areas, where agricultural shows and Highland games are often part of the lifeblood of the summer economy. The cabinet secretary was trenchant in her views about that in committee and again today, but I venture that the bill does not give similar comfort.

I will concentrate on a couple of areas, the first of which is legal definitions. I can almost sense former colleagues in the legal profession rubbing their hands at the prospect of this legislation, given the issues of interpretation that the bill throws up in its present state. Strangely for a bill that is all about circuses, it does not define the word “circus”. As the cabinet secretary said, there is sometimes sense in having a general, flexible definition, but I submit that there is not in this case. The bill defines “travelling circus”, albeit that the word “circus” in that phrase is not defined. “Travelling circus” is currently defined as the public’s perception of a travelling circus, which is vague, open to all sorts of interpretations and risks criminalising people who put on a show or event to which animals have to be transported. That leaves anyone who tries to comprehend the bill in great difficulty.

There is also an issue with the term “wild animal”. The current definition of “wild animal” is an animal that is not “commonly domesticated” in the UK. Where does that leave reindeer from Scandinavia or llamas from South America, which would be classed as wild animals and might therefore be banned from being on show at public events?

Given those issues, I urge the Government to consider whether having a detailed list of defined species, which it could add to or subtract from at will through secondary legislation, would be a more sensible way forward. That might avoid some of the issues that my committee colleagues have mentioned and which I am sure others will go on to mention.

Unlike the Foreign Secretary, I will resist the temptation in closing to make reference to a roaring lion, but let me be clear that we accept that robust legislation must be in place to ensure that wild animals are properly protected. We welcome the creation of the offence and support the overarching principles of the bill, but it needs serious work before it is in a fit state to be enacted.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08062, in the name of Roseanna Cunningham, on stage 1 of the Wild Animals in Travelling Circuses (Scotlan...
The Cabinet Secretary for Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform (Roseanna Cunningham) SNP
I first thank the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee for its consideration of the bill. The committee took a great deal of evidence from a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. I call Graeme Dey, convener of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, to speak on behalf of the committee. ...
Graeme Dey (Angus South) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak in the debate on behalf of the committee. I thank the members of the committee for their efforts in producing the unanimous report on...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Yes. We have a little time in hand.
Graeme Dey SNP
On the day on which the bill was introduced, the cabinet secretary wrote to the committee to highlight the intention to review the operation of the Performin...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am sorry, cabinet secretary—the member must wind up now. Interruption. That is a fearsome look you are giving me, cabinet secretary, but I think that we re...
Roseanna Cunningham SNP
I would just like to ask my colleague whether he would seriously have preferred to have delayed all this for a number of years, because that would be the con...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Briefly, convener.
Graeme Dey SNP
As the cabinet secretary knows, I am reflecting the views of the whole committee, not just my own. I take her point on board, but that view was reached unani...
Donald Cameron (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I commend the committee’s report and the convener’s comments, which we have just heard. The Scottish Conservatives will support the Government’s motion, and ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you very much, Mr Cameron. I hope that we have run out of animal references, but we probably have not. I call David Stewart to open on behalf of Labour...
David Stewart (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I rise to speak in support of the general principles of the bill. However, a number of recommendations that have been proposed ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We come to the open debate, and I ask for speeches of four minutes. One member who is due to speak has forgotten to press their request-to-speak button—I wil...
Emma Harper (South Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am a member of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, which is responsible for scrutinising the bill, and I thank the members, the cler...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I am afraid that you must conclude now.
Emma Harper SNP
I will conclude, Presiding Officer. Nineteen countries have already banned it, so it is time for Scotland to lead the way for the rest of the UK.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Sometimes I do not win. Laughter. 15:37
Peter Chapman (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
The debate is about wild animals, so for once I do not need to declare an interest. Laughter. To be honest, when I am in a pen with a newly calved coo, I som...
Clare Adamson (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP) SNP
As an elected parliamentarian and councillor, I have been pleased to make links over the years with the Scottish Showmen’s Guild. On a number of occasions, I...
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Presiding Officer, as your deputy on the cross-party group on animal welfare, it is a privilege to speak in a debate that I hope will take Scotland a step fo...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
As a member of the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee, I join the convener in thanking all the stakeholders who gave evidence and the cler...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I thank Graeme Dey and his colleagues on the Environment, Climate Change and Land Reform Committee for the work that they have done. I recognise the overwhe...
Angus MacDonald (Falkirk East) (SNP) SNP
As a member of the ECCLR Committee, I am pleased to contribute to the debate, not least because it is a further step towards Scotland leading the way for the...
John Scott (Ayr) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as an honorary member of the British Veterinary Association. The Scottish Conservative Party and I welcome the bill’s general principl...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
It is great to have this debate in the chamber after lengthy discussions in committee. We spent a number of hours taking evidence on and discussing the bill—...
Claudia Beamish (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Yesterday was world animal welfare day. As we have heard this afternoon, we should all work together to sharpen the bill and to develop further protections f...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Finlay Carson. You can have a generous six minutes, Mr Carson—but not too generous. 16:13
Finlay Carson (Galloway and West Dumfries) (Con) Con
Today’s debate has been constructive with many valid and important points made about the bill. The committee convener addressed concerns over definitions, wh...