Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 03 October 2017
03 Oct 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Universal Credit (Roll-out)
Does Mr Tomkins accept that the DWP’s information that was released this year shows that one in four new UC claimants waits longer than six weeks, half of claimants need a DWP loan—the advance payment is a loan, which needs to be repaid—to pay for food and energy while they wait, nearly a third borrow from family or friends, and, most disturbing of all, one in 10 turns to payday or doorstep lenders?
Can Mr Tomkins tell me that giving people a loan on the first day or within five days, which they must pay back, does not simply prolong their problems with debt and arrears? Can he tell me, in the face of all the evidence from local authorities across Scotland, that that is a good way to address the six-week wait? I think not.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08035, in the name of Jeane Freeman, on the roll-out of universal credit. I call Jeane Freeman to speak t...
The Minister for Social Security (Jeane Freeman)
SNP
I have brought the motion to the chamber today to allow the Scottish Parliament to make clear its position on universal credit and to give Parliament the opp...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
Does the minister welcome the statement made at the Conservative Party conference yesterday that the wait will be a maximum of five days? Will she welcome th...
Jeane Freeman
SNP
Actually, what was mentioned at the Conservative Party conference—believe me, I will get to it—was what we already have. The only new thing that was said was...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
In the words of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the current system, which universal credit is replacing, is “fragmented and traps people in poverty.” If un...
Jeane Freeman
SNP
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which I know Mr Tomkins is very fond of quoting, called on the Conservatives to reverse the two-child limit. Originally, the ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con)
Con
Presiding Officer, “Universal Credit ... remains the right thing to do. The current system is fragmented and traps people in poverty. The prospect of an int...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
In East Lothian, prior to the roll-out of universal credit, rent arrears had fallen by 20 per cent; on its introduction, rent arrears increased by 20 per cen...
Adam Tomkins
Con
The DWP addressed the detail of that point in its responses to the Social Security Community. There was a particular problem in East Lothian, which was one o...
Maree Todd (Highlands and Islands) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Adam Tomkins
Con
No. On 14 March, the responsible minister, Damian Hinds MP, wrote to the Social Security Committee. He said: “I accept there are cases where claimants wait...
Jeane Freeman
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Adam Tomkins
Con
I will if I have time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There is time for interventions for everyone in this debate.
Jeane Freeman
SNP
Does Mr Tomkins accept that the DWP’s information that was released this year shows that one in four new UC claimants waits longer than six weeks, half of cl...
Adam Tomkins
Con
That was more a speech than an intervention. The answer is straightforward. There is an interest-free loan, which needs to be paid back over a six-month per...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab)
Lab
When the Parliament last debated universal credit, a few weeks ago, I said that I would welcome a Government debate on the issue, so I am glad to be speaking...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con)
Con
Does the member agree that the best way out of poverty is to work and that people who claim universal credit are 13 per cent more likely to be in work than p...
Alex Rowley
Lab
Skills opportunities and employment are, for me, the best way out of poverty—I do not disagree with that. However, we need to provide support. It is clear th...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green)
Green
This is the second time in less than a month that the Parliament has debated the roll-out of universal credit. That is a clear reflection of the extraordinar...
Adam Tomkins
Con
I am very grateful to the member for taking an intervention. One of the recent changes to universal credit has been the change in the taper rate from 65 per ...
Alison Johnstone
Green
Yes, I agree, but that amounted to £0.7 billion, compared with an initial £3 billion cut. Research by the OBR shows that, by 2020, universal credit will tak...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD)
LD
I welcome the Scottish Government’s motion and the opportunity that it affords the chamber to call a halt to the botched accelerated roll-out of universal cr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
We move to the open debate. 16:08
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP)
SNP
It is important to remind members, particularly the Tories, that today we are discussing human beings and their situation; we are discussing not statistics, ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I welcome the amendment in my colleague Adam Tomkins’s name and I fully support it. I suspect that there will not be a lot of consensus from other parties ab...
Jeane Freeman
SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP)
SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Balfour
Con
Not at the moment. I will make some progress first, if that is okay. We have heard much about the great old system that we all loved so much—six forms, six ...
Sandra White
SNP
Will the member give way?