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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 03 October 2017

03 Oct 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Universal Credit (Roll-out)
Freeman, Jeane SNP Carrick, Cumnock and Doon Valley Watch on SPTV

The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which I know Mr Tomkins is very fond of quoting, called on the Conservatives to reverse the two-child limit. Originally, the Conservatives said that the transition from the current benefits and tax credits system to universal credit would result in more people gaining than losing, but the reverse is now the case. In policy terms and in delivery, the UK Government system is fundamentally flawed, is being delivered with incompetence and needs to be halted. If thousands of people are being driven into hardship and misery, why continue with that when the system can be fixed? That is straightforward, and it is beyond my understanding why a Government will not listen to all the evidence that it has and make changes.

The Scottish Government will make possible the choices that people want: to be able to be paid twice monthly and to decide whether their rent is paid directly to their landlord—social or private—or to themselves. We will also continue our work on how we will address single household payments. However, let me be clear that we have to pay the DWP for ensuring that people have those choices. We have to pay it to do something that is the right thing to do and which it has been told consistently is what it ought to do. For years, people have told the DWP that the approach creates a problem that could be fixed in that way.

Media reports at the weekend said that Iain Duncan Smith, who was the main architect of universal credit, did not want to hear the bad news about failings of the system. His approach was blinkered, and he marched on regardless. However, he is only one of four Secretaries of State for Work and Pensions since the original white paper on universal credit was published in 2011, and not one of them has been brave enough to pause that shambolic system and take the necessary time to fix the problems that are inherent in the design and delivery of universal credit.

Real leadership comes from listening, paying attention to evidence, and fixing problems. It comes from admitting when you have got it wrong, not from standing by flawed decisions and forging ahead with the blinkers on.

We need, and our people in Scotland deserve, a social security system that puts meaning behind the principles of dignity and respect and that puts people at its heart. I urge every member to support the motion and to call on the UK Government to act now to immediately halt the roll-out of universal credit and fix the problems.

I move,

That the Parliament calls on the UK Government to immediately halt the roll-out of universal credit full service due to the overwhelming evidence of the damage that it is causing recipients; agrees that the clear failings in the design and delivery of the system must be addressed; condemns the six-week wait for the first payment of universal credit, which is pushing people into rent arrears, debt and crisis; notes the evidence from a wide range of third sector organisations that highlights the hardship and harm being caused by universal credit; notes that the House of Commons Work and Pensions Committee inquiry into universal credit has highlighted the fundamental flaws that must be resolved before full service roll-out proceeds; welcomes the Scottish Government’s use of flexibilities over the system to provide recipients in Scotland a choice of more frequent payments and for the housing element to be paid direct to landlords, but recognises that this does not address the most damaging aspects built in to universal credit; recognises the Scottish Government’s commitment to introduce split payments of universal credit and to work with stakeholders to consider how these can be delivered in Scotland; welcomes the joint letter from COSLA and the Scottish Government demonstrating the defects of universal credit and calling for the roll-out to be paused, and believes that the UK Government must stop ignoring the overwhelming evidence that shows the negative impact of universal credit full service and take urgent action to fix the problems and make the system fit for purpose and work for the people of Scotland.

15:39  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-08035, in the name of Jeane Freeman, on the roll-out of universal credit. I call Jeane Freeman to speak t...
The Minister for Social Security (Jeane Freeman) SNP
I have brought the motion to the chamber today to allow the Scottish Parliament to make clear its position on universal credit and to give Parliament the opp...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
Does the minister welcome the statement made at the Conservative Party conference yesterday that the wait will be a maximum of five days? Will she welcome th...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Actually, what was mentioned at the Conservative Party conference—believe me, I will get to it—was what we already have. The only new thing that was said was...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
In the words of the Joseph Rowntree Foundation, the current system, which universal credit is replacing, is “fragmented and traps people in poverty.” If un...
Jeane Freeman SNP
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation, which I know Mr Tomkins is very fond of quoting, called on the Conservatives to reverse the two-child limit. Originally, the ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Presiding Officer, “Universal Credit ... remains the right thing to do. The current system is fragmented and traps people in poverty. The prospect of an int...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
In East Lothian, prior to the roll-out of universal credit, rent arrears had fallen by 20 per cent; on its introduction, rent arrears increased by 20 per cen...
Adam Tomkins Con
The DWP addressed the detail of that point in its responses to the Social Security Community. There was a particular problem in East Lothian, which was one o...
Maree Todd (Highlands and Islands) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Adam Tomkins Con
No. On 14 March, the responsible minister, Damian Hinds MP, wrote to the Social Security Committee. He said: “I accept there are cases where claimants wait...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Adam Tomkins Con
I will if I have time.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
There is time for interventions for everyone in this debate.
Jeane Freeman SNP
Does Mr Tomkins accept that the DWP’s information that was released this year shows that one in four new UC claimants waits longer than six weeks, half of cl...
Adam Tomkins Con
That was more a speech than an intervention. The answer is straightforward. There is an interest-free loan, which needs to be paid back over a six-month per...
Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
When the Parliament last debated universal credit, a few weeks ago, I said that I would welcome a Government debate on the issue, so I am glad to be speaking...
Maurice Golden (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Does the member agree that the best way out of poverty is to work and that people who claim universal credit are 13 per cent more likely to be in work than p...
Alex Rowley Lab
Skills opportunities and employment are, for me, the best way out of poverty—I do not disagree with that. However, we need to provide support. It is clear th...
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
This is the second time in less than a month that the Parliament has debated the roll-out of universal credit. That is a clear reflection of the extraordinar...
Adam Tomkins Con
I am very grateful to the member for taking an intervention. One of the recent changes to universal credit has been the change in the taper rate from 65 per ...
Alison Johnstone Green
Yes, I agree, but that amounted to £0.7 billion, compared with an initial £3 billion cut. Research by the OBR shows that, by 2020, universal credit will tak...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
I welcome the Scottish Government’s motion and the opportunity that it affords the chamber to call a halt to the botched accelerated roll-out of universal cr...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 16:08
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
It is important to remind members, particularly the Tories, that today we are discussing human beings and their situation; we are discussing not statistics, ...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I welcome the amendment in my colleague Adam Tomkins’s name and I fully support it. I suspect that there will not be a lot of consensus from other parties ab...
Jeane Freeman SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
Not at the moment. I will make some progress first, if that is okay. We have heard much about the great old system that we all loved so much—six forms, six ...
Sandra White SNP
Will the member give way?