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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 September 2017

28 Sep 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Close and intimate personal relationships are an integral part of our lives. Sharing life with a husband or wife, for example, learning more about each other and experiencing life together can give some of the most precious times in life. However, when relationships break down, whether momentarily, temporarily or permanently, such moments can be the worst that any of us face. Worse still is a situation in which two people have placed trust and love in each other, only for one of them to turn around and abuse that trust through physical or psychological maltreatment. Such abuse can take many forms and leave deep emotional wounds that last long after a physical bruise or scar may appear to have healed, and so complex can human relationships be that the victim may not initially realise what is happening.

It is that sort of complicated set of circumstances that we look at now as lawmakers. I am sure that we all agree that our purpose should be to target serious wrongdoings rather than what might be categorised as occasionally irrational behaviour. Human weaknesses can, of course, often cause disagreements to take place within a relationship. Andrew Tickell of Glasgow Caledonian University law school said in evidence—I quote—

“Even broadly healthy relationships are occasionally characterised by hurtful conduct, jealous behaviour, and distressing episodes.”

Calum Steele’s evidence has been referred to already—one part of it, anyway—but he said that his experience was that once the criminal justice system becomes involved, that involvement can itself become a source of regret and distress to individuals. So, the question is this: is the draft legislation that is before us sufficiently clear, or does it blur the line between a pattern of unacceptable, coercive and controlling behaviour on the one hand and irregular friction on the other? Does it overcriminalise?

The Glasgow Bar Association referred to a “wide scope of behaviours” that may be criminalised by the bill. Others, including the Law Society of Scotland, raised concerns about the bill having a low threshold to establish a course of behaviour. An example that has been referred to already is that of using “distress” as a measure of the impact of a person’s behaviour towards another. It is valid and important to ask, as others have, whether the bar is being set too low.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We are perhaps slightly ahead of where people would expect us to be. I am glad that virtually all the members whom we expected are here for the next debate. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Everyone in the chamber is aware that domestic abuse blights the lives of too many people in Scotland. Domestic abuse might not be obvious, because it is lar...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for the way in which he has set out the proposition that is under scrutiny. He will be aware that the Justice Committe...
Michael Matheson SNP
I will seek to do so. As we said in our response to the committee’s report, we believe that we have set the bar at the right level. Our response reinforces t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s thanking of all the groups that have contributed to the bill. Scottish Women’s Aid and Children 1st have both called for th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I ask the cabinet secretary to address that and to draw his remarks to a conclusion.
Michael Matheson SNP
We have responded to the committee by setting out that the approach that we will take will be to reform child welfare legislation, which will allow us to con...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee in this important debate. The committee took evidence on the bill over six meetings, earlier this y...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo the cabinet secretary and the convener of the Justice Committee in thanking everyone who gave evidence to the committee as well as the clerks and the ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Last year, Scottish Women’s Aid reached its 40th year. Its work, from local groups providing support and refuge for women and children who are facing domesti...
Mairi Gougeon (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
It is a privilege to speak in this debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, because it is a vital piece of legislation to come before Parliament. The b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before I call Maurice Corry, I remind everybody that speeches should be of four minutes but there is a reasonable time in hand for members to take interventi...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am glad to have the opportunity to take part in this very important debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. I, too, acknowledge and thank the organis...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I agree with Maurice Corry about training, but what we really need is training for cultural change. For many years, domestic violence—I do not like that titl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have some time in hand, so I can give members a little leeway—30 seconds. I know that that does not sound like much but, as nobody is intervening, I have t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I would be delighted to assist you in that effort, Presiding Officer. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. The bill is about improving the justice syste...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Today is a historic day, because the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill will, for the first time, introduce provisions on psychological abuse into the repugnant ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
As I said, there is some time in hand, so members can say a little more. 16:10
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
A number of speakers have talked about filling a gap. Indeed, Scottish Women’s Aid mentioned that in its briefing. I thank it and other organisations for the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I gave you an extra minute, Mr Finnie, so you should conclude now, please.
John Finnie Green
Many thanks. I lend the bill my full support. 16:15
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As others have said, psychological abuse within a relationship or by an ex-partner can cause immense and enduring trauma and harm. As a member of the Justice...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I will start by confirming that the Scottish Liberal Democrats unequivocally support this bill to tackle controlling and coercive domestic abuse, although I ...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be speaking in the debate and am immensely proud that the Justice Committee unanimously agreed to the principles of the bill. How often do we...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Close and intimate personal relationships are an integral part of our lives. Sharing life with a husband or wife, for example, learning more about each other...
John Finnie Green
Does Gordon Lindhurst accept that we must take cognisance of the judgment of the individual who chooses to pick up the phone and say “I require the police’s ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Yes, of course. It is always the judgment of the individual whether to pick up the phone and call the police. I do not demur from that, at all.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gordon Lindhurst Con
No. We can contrast this Scottish bill’s classification of behaviour as being coercive or controlling even when it has happened on only two occasions with t...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
The poet and domestic abuse survivor Christy Ann Martine wrote this: “You can’t keep her in a cage, clip her wings, tell her lies, say that fragile birds ...