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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 September 2017

28 Sep 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
MacGregor, Fulton SNP Coatbridge and Chryston Watch on SPTV

I am pleased to be speaking in the debate and am immensely proud that the Justice Committee unanimously agreed to the principles of the bill. How often do we see five parties all agreeing about a bill? That says something about Scotland and the Parliament, and we should all be very proud.

During committee consideration, we heard evidence upon evidence that the bill is needed and that there is a gap in the law that means that victims are not protected from psychological abuse. That evidence came from Scottish Women’s Aid, Abused Men in Scotland, all the children’s charities, social work, the police, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service and victims themselves, to name but a few.

My experience as a social worker told me the same. In 12 years in a local office setting, I lost count of how many times I sat at a child protection conference, a children’s hearing, a multi-agency public protection arrangements meeting or some other forum and heard evidence of what was often a pervasive pattern of psychological and emotional abuse over long periods of time. The police, social and health services often had nowhere concrete to go.

The bill will be groundbreaking and will make a real difference to service intervention and, most importantly, to the lives of those suffering at the hands of abusive—mostly, but not exclusively—men.

I do not want to sound too sucky-uppy to the cabinet secretary but, because this issue was part of my work life for a long time and it means a lot to me, I will say that if the bill is passed, he can be very proud. In years to come, he will be able to think back to this as an absolutely outstanding achievement that will have positively impacted the lives of many and helped to change the culture in this country.

I will address some of the issues in the committee report. Much has already been said, so there is a risk of repeating things, but it is worth doing. A very small—and I stress that it is small—number of stakeholders expressed concerns that the bar of criminality is being set too low. I do not agree with that. The committee heard evidence from Anne Marie Hicks from the COPFS who did not think that that was the case. I welcome that, in its response to the committee’s report, the Government outlined the three thresholds that require to be met; I am sure that the cabinet secretary will highlight those.

During evidence gathering, the subject of children who are exposed to such behaviour generated a lot of discussion. I welcome the Government’s response in relation to the review of the Children (Scotland) Act 1995, including a review of child contact cases as they relate to domestic violence.

I also welcome that there will be consideration of amendments at stage 2 to allow non-harassment orders to protect children specifically. The Government is taking a positive step in meeting Scottish Women’s Aid to talk about emergency barring orders, and I encourage dialogue on that front with the children’s charities such as Children 1st. I met Chloe Riddell earlier today and we discussed that very issue.

I will follow up on a question that I asked the cabinet secretary when he made his recent statement. I believe that the introduction of such an offence and the subsequent publicity will lead to more convictions. From working in the field, I know that the Scottish Government has recently invested strongly in criminal justice, especially in addressing female offending. However, we need to ensure that funding is increased for programmes for male perpetrators—because it is particularly male perpetrators—of domestic violence. Programmes can work, but they need people who can specialise and do the intense work. It takes a lot of work to change people’s belief systems. The change programme and the Caledonian system are examples of such work.

I take the opportunity to encourage local authorities to use Government investment to create specific posts for people who work in the area and allow them to effect change. Some local authorities do this already, but I would like to see local authorities have specific teams to work on domestic abuse, as they do in other areas of criminal justice. That would be a step in the right direction.

I see that I have been speaking for just over four minutes, Presiding Officer, so you will be glad to know that I am finishing. I welcome the bill and commend it to the chamber.

16:29  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We are perhaps slightly ahead of where people would expect us to be. I am glad that virtually all the members whom we expected are here for the next debate. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Everyone in the chamber is aware that domestic abuse blights the lives of too many people in Scotland. Domestic abuse might not be obvious, because it is lar...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for the way in which he has set out the proposition that is under scrutiny. He will be aware that the Justice Committe...
Michael Matheson SNP
I will seek to do so. As we said in our response to the committee’s report, we believe that we have set the bar at the right level. Our response reinforces t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s thanking of all the groups that have contributed to the bill. Scottish Women’s Aid and Children 1st have both called for th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I ask the cabinet secretary to address that and to draw his remarks to a conclusion.
Michael Matheson SNP
We have responded to the committee by setting out that the approach that we will take will be to reform child welfare legislation, which will allow us to con...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee in this important debate. The committee took evidence on the bill over six meetings, earlier this y...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo the cabinet secretary and the convener of the Justice Committee in thanking everyone who gave evidence to the committee as well as the clerks and the ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Last year, Scottish Women’s Aid reached its 40th year. Its work, from local groups providing support and refuge for women and children who are facing domesti...
Mairi Gougeon (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
It is a privilege to speak in this debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, because it is a vital piece of legislation to come before Parliament. The b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before I call Maurice Corry, I remind everybody that speeches should be of four minutes but there is a reasonable time in hand for members to take interventi...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am glad to have the opportunity to take part in this very important debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. I, too, acknowledge and thank the organis...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I agree with Maurice Corry about training, but what we really need is training for cultural change. For many years, domestic violence—I do not like that titl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have some time in hand, so I can give members a little leeway—30 seconds. I know that that does not sound like much but, as nobody is intervening, I have t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I would be delighted to assist you in that effort, Presiding Officer. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. The bill is about improving the justice syste...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Today is a historic day, because the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill will, for the first time, introduce provisions on psychological abuse into the repugnant ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
As I said, there is some time in hand, so members can say a little more. 16:10
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
A number of speakers have talked about filling a gap. Indeed, Scottish Women’s Aid mentioned that in its briefing. I thank it and other organisations for the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I gave you an extra minute, Mr Finnie, so you should conclude now, please.
John Finnie Green
Many thanks. I lend the bill my full support. 16:15
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As others have said, psychological abuse within a relationship or by an ex-partner can cause immense and enduring trauma and harm. As a member of the Justice...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I will start by confirming that the Scottish Liberal Democrats unequivocally support this bill to tackle controlling and coercive domestic abuse, although I ...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be speaking in the debate and am immensely proud that the Justice Committee unanimously agreed to the principles of the bill. How often do we...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Close and intimate personal relationships are an integral part of our lives. Sharing life with a husband or wife, for example, learning more about each other...
John Finnie Green
Does Gordon Lindhurst accept that we must take cognisance of the judgment of the individual who chooses to pick up the phone and say “I require the police’s ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Yes, of course. It is always the judgment of the individual whether to pick up the phone and call the police. I do not demur from that, at all.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gordon Lindhurst Con
No. We can contrast this Scottish bill’s classification of behaviour as being coercive or controlling even when it has happened on only two occasions with t...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
The poet and domestic abuse survivor Christy Ann Martine wrote this: “You can’t keep her in a cage, clip her wings, tell her lies, say that fragile birds ...