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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 September 2017

28 Sep 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

I would be delighted to assist you in that effort, Presiding Officer. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.

The bill is about improving the justice system and how it serves the victims and punishes the perpetrators of domestic abuse. What the bill cannot do is eradicate domestic abuse. I remind members that abuse is about the exercise of power—as long as women are unequal in society, domestic abuse will persist. The bill could be perfect and domestic abuse would still persist, which is why we must redouble our efforts for the wider goal of achieving gender equality in society.

On that point, I love Paisley, but while back benchers in yesterday’s debate on Paisley’s bid to be city of culture were given six minutes for speeches, today I have four minutes to talk about a bill in a stage 1 debate. I cannot help but ask whether that is a product of having a Parliamentary Bureau that is composed entirely of men.

I very much welcome the bill and the way in which it is the result of consultation on various aspects of the issue. I welcome, too, the contributions from Justice Committee members. As Claire Baker said, we whole-heartedly support the bill’s principles. Like her, I will focus on what is missing from the bill and return to the need for a parallel offence of domestic abuse against children to be included at a later stage. I encourage the cabinet secretary to look at the evidence from Scottish Women’s Aid about the requirement for that. Equally, it is important to consider how good emergency banning orders would be, because the evidence has told us how ineffective exclusion orders are in the civil system.

I am a cynical soul these days, for a number of reasons, so I would like to consider how the bill’s principles might operate in practice. There is a history in the Parliament of doing brave things and of producing grand, world-leading legislation but then not fulfilling that legislation’s promise when it comes to delivering in practice. Just yesterday, at question time on the theme of education and skills, I talked about how proud I was of the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 and its provision for continuing care for looked-after young people, yet I exposed the fact that 99 per cent of the young people who should have access to such care currently do not have it.

I am sure that Parliament would be united in its hope that what we are doing with the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill will be realised in practice. To do that, we need to consider four things: education and training, resources, publicity and the relationship that the bill will have with the rest of the justice system.

On education and training, as a Conservative colleague said, we have to ensure that training on the principles behind the bill is provided to staff who will have any contact with the bill’s provisions.

My colleague Claire Baker discussed resourcing. We know that cuts to refuge services are a considerable issue in constituencies across the country, as are cuts to community policing and pressures on housing. I have talked in the chamber before about meeting a woman who was the victim of domestic abuse who was stuck in a refuge for 18 months because the housing list was so long. She wanted to move on from that experience, but she could not.

We will have to do a good job of advertising the benefits of the bill to the wider public, just as the Government has done on the issue of revenge porn; I commend the Government for the publicity campaign that has gone along with that new offence.

Ultimately, we have to look at the relationship between the bill and the rest of the justice system. Some colleagues have referred to the relationship between the bill and contact orders when it comes to families with children, where that is a necessary issue.

One thing that we have perhaps talked less about today is criminal procedure. I very much welcome the sections of the bill that address that. I cannot help but think about what the bill would have meant for constituents I have met during my time as a member of the Parliament. I think of one particular woman who came to my surgery having experienced domestic abuse. The bill would have helped her but, to her mind, it will not go far enough.

I will give members some examples of that woman’s experiences. She came to talk to me about what life was like for her and her children, having been subjected to an abusive partner. Her children had to give evidence from a remote site, but the Edinburgh remote site was closed, so they had to travel to Livingston to do that. That caused great discomfort for the family. The children were not told enough about what it would be like to give video evidence in court. They were not told that they would be streamed live not just to the judge but to the whole courtroom, and they were alarmed to hear about that after the event.

The trial date of the court case was moved on four occasions because the accused tried deliberately to prolong matters. That in itself is a form of abuse. The accused faced 30 charges and was eventually convicted on 10 counts, with three “not proven” verdicts, but he was released for background checks prior to sentencing. He absconded while he was on bail, but when he was caught, he was bailed again. The bill will not address that issue of criminal procedure, which I encourage the justice secretary to look at again.

16:06  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We are perhaps slightly ahead of where people would expect us to be. I am glad that virtually all the members whom we expected are here for the next debate. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Everyone in the chamber is aware that domestic abuse blights the lives of too many people in Scotland. Domestic abuse might not be obvious, because it is lar...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for the way in which he has set out the proposition that is under scrutiny. He will be aware that the Justice Committe...
Michael Matheson SNP
I will seek to do so. As we said in our response to the committee’s report, we believe that we have set the bar at the right level. Our response reinforces t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s thanking of all the groups that have contributed to the bill. Scottish Women’s Aid and Children 1st have both called for th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I ask the cabinet secretary to address that and to draw his remarks to a conclusion.
Michael Matheson SNP
We have responded to the committee by setting out that the approach that we will take will be to reform child welfare legislation, which will allow us to con...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee in this important debate. The committee took evidence on the bill over six meetings, earlier this y...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo the cabinet secretary and the convener of the Justice Committee in thanking everyone who gave evidence to the committee as well as the clerks and the ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Last year, Scottish Women’s Aid reached its 40th year. Its work, from local groups providing support and refuge for women and children who are facing domesti...
Mairi Gougeon (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
It is a privilege to speak in this debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill, because it is a vital piece of legislation to come before Parliament. The b...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before I call Maurice Corry, I remind everybody that speeches should be of four minutes but there is a reasonable time in hand for members to take interventi...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am glad to have the opportunity to take part in this very important debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. I, too, acknowledge and thank the organis...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I agree with Maurice Corry about training, but what we really need is training for cultural change. For many years, domestic violence—I do not like that titl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have some time in hand, so I can give members a little leeway—30 seconds. I know that that does not sound like much but, as nobody is intervening, I have t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I would be delighted to assist you in that effort, Presiding Officer. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. The bill is about improving the justice syste...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
Today is a historic day, because the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill will, for the first time, introduce provisions on psychological abuse into the repugnant ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
As I said, there is some time in hand, so members can say a little more. 16:10
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
A number of speakers have talked about filling a gap. Indeed, Scottish Women’s Aid mentioned that in its briefing. I thank it and other organisations for the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I gave you an extra minute, Mr Finnie, so you should conclude now, please.
John Finnie Green
Many thanks. I lend the bill my full support. 16:15
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As others have said, psychological abuse within a relationship or by an ex-partner can cause immense and enduring trauma and harm. As a member of the Justice...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I will start by confirming that the Scottish Liberal Democrats unequivocally support this bill to tackle controlling and coercive domestic abuse, although I ...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be speaking in the debate and am immensely proud that the Justice Committee unanimously agreed to the principles of the bill. How often do we...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Close and intimate personal relationships are an integral part of our lives. Sharing life with a husband or wife, for example, learning more about each other...
John Finnie Green
Does Gordon Lindhurst accept that we must take cognisance of the judgment of the individual who chooses to pick up the phone and say “I require the police’s ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Yes, of course. It is always the judgment of the individual whether to pick up the phone and call the police. I do not demur from that, at all.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gordon Lindhurst Con
No. We can contrast this Scottish bill’s classification of behaviour as being coercive or controlling even when it has happened on only two occasions with t...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
The poet and domestic abuse survivor Christy Ann Martine wrote this: “You can’t keep her in a cage, clip her wings, tell her lies, say that fragile birds ...