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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 28 September 2017

28 Sep 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1
Kerr, Liam Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

I echo the cabinet secretary and the convener of the Justice Committee in thanking everyone who gave evidence to the committee as well as the clerks and the Scottish Parliament information centre for all their assistance.

In its current form, the criminal law focuses on discrete incidents of physical violence or threatening behaviour that causes fear or alarm, and it can fail to recognise the lived experience of domestic abuse as a course of conduct over a period of time. The bill seeks to bridge that gap, making it possible inter alia to convict an individual on the basis of a course of conduct that includes psychological abuse.

As the cabinet secretary has made clear, the intention of the bill, if passed, is to improve the justice system’s response to domestic abuse, principally by creating a new offence of engaging in an abusive course of conduct—even if it is entirely non-physical—against a partner or ex-partner, and it will also amend procedural and evidential aspects of criminal law with a view to tipping the balance in favour of domestic abuse victims. Accordingly, I confirm that the Scottish Conservatives support the bill in principle and will vote to agree to its general principles at decision time.

The bill seeks to address a lacuna in the legislative landscape. The committee heard compelling and persuasive evidence from a number of organisations, social workers, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and from abuse survivors. Some of the harrowing conduct that was described to the committee is not currently criminal and therefore cannot be prosecuted, and it is that which the bill seeks to address.

Some areas merit further consideration, and my colleagues will pick up on those throughout the debate. Concerns have been expressed about whether the bill risks setting the bar of criminality too low, which could potentially lead to the wrong cases being prosecuted. Calum Steele of the Scottish Police Federation gave evidence that couples at the time of a relationship breakdown may sometimes be “particularly horrible” to each other but, a few months down the line, the parties may regret getting the criminal justice system involved.

Andrew Tickell of Glasgow Caledonian University law school expressed concerns about overcriminalisation when the law intervenes in family and romantic life. He had particular concerns about the use of the word “distress” to define psychological harm, as it is a novel term in criminal law.

The SPF further expressed disquiet around officers becoming pawns in routine family disagreements, with Calum Steele noting that there is a “fundamental difference” between arresting on the basis of physical evidence and interpreting whether there has been psychological abuse. He said that, at the very least, officers would need training to apply the law. I agree with the point that Liam McArthur made in his intervention that the cabinet secretary’s response to the committee’s stage 1 report is useful in that regard, as it is in a great deal of respects.

I want to flag up an area that the Scottish Government might wish to consider. Courts can sometimes seem stacked against domestic abuse survivors. There is an acceptance that the judicial process for domestic abuse victims is traumatic and that steps should be taken to minimise what they have to relive and, as the committee’s report suggests, to ensure that people are not revictimised by the criminal justice process. The Scottish Government accepts that point in the policy memorandum on the bill.

The issue potentially persists where victims of domestic abuse have to recount their case to multiple sheriffs. Far too often in cases of domestic abuse, there may be a number of issues, for example divorce and/or child residence arrangements, as well as the domestic abuse. Those will be heard in different arenas, with perhaps one sheriff in a civil court hearing evidence during the divorce proceedings and a separate sheriff in a criminal court for the domestic violence. There is also the possibility that multiple sheriffs will deal with different stages of a civil case. According to SPICe,

“At present, a number of sheriffs can be involved in an individual family case. There is no system whereby the same sheriff deals with every stage of the civil case.”

That means that, potentially, victims have to repeatedly relive their ordeal. Domestic violence victims face many barriers to safety and independence, but incomprehensible and/or overcomplex court proceedings should not be one.

Trials of a one family, one judge system to address the issue have been carried out in the US, Australia and New Zealand. In that system, to avoid unnecessary trauma the victim has to recount their experience to only a single judge. In England, there have been trials of an integrated domestic violence court, in which one judge handles the criminal cases related to domestic violence as well as all accompanying civil matters. The single presiding judge is cross-trained to handle all matters—criminal and civil—relating to a family. Arguably, by concentrating responsibility, that integrated court speeds decision making and eliminates the potential for conflicting judicial orders.

The approach can also increase co-ordination among criminal justice and community-based social service agencies and may improve the ability to keep tabs on defendants and to respond quickly to allegations of non-compliance with imposed orders. It may reduce the number of court appearances, thereby streamlining the process and meaning that the trauma of retelling the incident numerous times can be avoided. A review found:

“The evidence on IDVCs is promising and indicates there are advantages to bringing together family, civil, and criminal cases.”

I accept that there are issues to be addressed. Difficulties can arise when the evidence given in one case differs from that given in another, and there could be an administrative burden in ensuring that the same judge deals with both matters. Proper procedures, administration and resources would require to be in place to make it happen, but a one family, one sheriff approach for domestic abuse victims in Scotland is surely worth exploring, whether as part of the bill or separately.

Domestic abuse is monstrous and can cause immense and enduring trauma and harm. It has been sobering to hear and read the testimony of victims and the organisations that support them, which has highlighted the fact that there is behaviour that cannot currently be prosecuted because it does not meet the threshold of criminal conduct. It is clear from that evidence that more must be done to support victims, that there is a gap in our law and that the new offence is required.

We agree that the general principles of the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill are sound and we shall vote for it today. However, we are confident that the Government will listen to concerns raised in the Justice Committee’s stage 1 report and during this debate to ensure that the new law is as effective as it can be.

15:40  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
We are perhaps slightly ahead of where people would expect us to be. I am glad that virtually all the members whom we expected are here for the next debate. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Everyone in the chamber is aware that domestic abuse blights the lives of too many people in Scotland. Domestic abuse might not be obvious, because it is lar...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for the way in which he has set out the proposition that is under scrutiny. He will be aware that the Justice Committe...
Michael Matheson SNP
I will seek to do so. As we said in our response to the committee’s report, we believe that we have set the bar at the right level. Our response reinforces t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the cabinet secretary’s thanking of all the groups that have contributed to the bill. Scottish Women’s Aid and Children 1st have both called for th...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I ask the cabinet secretary to address that and to draw his remarks to a conclusion.
Michael Matheson SNP
We have responded to the committee by setting out that the approach that we will take will be to reform child welfare legislation, which will allow us to con...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak on behalf of the Justice Committee in this important debate. The committee took evidence on the bill over six meetings, earlier this y...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I echo the cabinet secretary and the convener of the Justice Committee in thanking everyone who gave evidence to the committee as well as the clerks and the ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
Last year, Scottish Women’s Aid reached its 40th year. Its work, from local groups providing support and refuge for women and children who are facing domesti...
Mairi Gougeon (Angus North and Mearns) (SNP) SNP
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The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
Before I call Maurice Corry, I remind everybody that speeches should be of four minutes but there is a reasonable time in hand for members to take interventi...
Maurice Corry (West Scotland) (Con) Con
I am glad to have the opportunity to take part in this very important debate on the Domestic Abuse (Scotland) Bill. I, too, acknowledge and thank the organis...
Sandra White (Glasgow Kelvin) (SNP) SNP
I agree with Maurice Corry about training, but what we really need is training for cultural change. For many years, domestic violence—I do not like that titl...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I have some time in hand, so I can give members a little leeway—30 seconds. I know that that does not sound like much but, as nobody is intervening, I have t...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
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Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
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The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
As I said, there is some time in hand, so members can say a little more. 16:10
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
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The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I gave you an extra minute, Mr Finnie, so you should conclude now, please.
John Finnie Green
Many thanks. I lend the bill my full support. 16:15
Ben Macpherson (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (SNP) SNP
As others have said, psychological abuse within a relationship or by an ex-partner can cause immense and enduring trauma and harm. As a member of the Justice...
Liam McArthur (Orkney Islands) (LD) LD
I will start by confirming that the Scottish Liberal Democrats unequivocally support this bill to tackle controlling and coercive domestic abuse, although I ...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I am pleased to be speaking in the debate and am immensely proud that the Justice Committee unanimously agreed to the principles of the bill. How often do we...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
Close and intimate personal relationships are an integral part of our lives. Sharing life with a husband or wife, for example, learning more about each other...
John Finnie Green
Does Gordon Lindhurst accept that we must take cognisance of the judgment of the individual who chooses to pick up the phone and say “I require the police’s ...
Gordon Lindhurst Con
Yes, of course. It is always the judgment of the individual whether to pick up the phone and call the police. I do not demur from that, at all.
Fulton MacGregor SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Gordon Lindhurst Con
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Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
The poet and domestic abuse survivor Christy Ann Martine wrote this: “You can’t keep her in a cage, clip her wings, tell her lies, say that fragile birds ...