Hansard

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA

The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-06376, in the name of John Swinney, on education governance: next steps. 14:41

The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP

Two weeks ago, I set out the Government’s vision for education and our proposals for reform. Our ambition is to create a world-class education system in whic...

Alex Rowley (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab

When I speak to teachers in my constituency, they talk about the cuts that are taking place, workloads that have them completely run off their feet, class si...

John Swinney SNP

Mr Rowley will have noticed the data that was released yesterday, which indicated that there has been an increase in local authority expenditure on education...

Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab

Will the member give way?

John Swinney SNP

If Mr Gray will forgive me, I will answer Mr Rowley’s question first. Mr Rowley will also be aware of the contribution of pupil equity funding, which is goi...

Iain Gray Lab

Mr Swinney referred to the figures that came out yesterday. Does he accept that the cash increase that the figures demonstrated becomes a real-terms decrease...

John Swinney SNP

Mr Gray will be familiar with the wider public finance position with which the Scottish Government wrestles. I remind him of the Audit Scotland report that i...

Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con

Will Mr Swinney give way?

John Swinney SNP

If Mr Balfour will forgive me, I will give way in a moment. The educational rationale for the measures is strong, with teams of professionals with specialis...

Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green

The cabinet secretary mentions that he would like to see more collaboration. In the consultation document, the Government acknowledges the response from teac...

John Swinney SNP

At the heart of the OECD review was a concern about the lack of collaboration in our education system. I am putting in place the mechanisms to enable that co...

Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con

My party will be supporting the motion in the name of John Swinney, for the simple reason that it adopts the line of argument that the Scottish Conservatives...

John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP

Does Liz Smith accept that some schools, especially in deprived areas, benefit greatly from the support that they get from the centre—for example, from Glasg...

Liz Smith Con

Absolutely, but I will deal with that specifically when I mention pupil equity funding, because there are real issues about where the power to make the initi...

John Swinney SNP

Obviously, I am very interested in the line of argument that Liz Smith is pursuing with regard to pupil equity funding, as there is guidance available on how...

Liz Smith Con

I am pleased that the cabinet secretary has raised that point, because I would like to think that that is true. However, according to the paper that Frank Le...

John Swinney SNP

I would like to pursue that further. That is interesting but it does not address the issue that I raised. There is guidance available to help and to inform d...

Liz Smith Con

The policy intention is clear, cabinet secretary, but I am not sure about the delivery. If we look at what the educational establishment has said about some ...

The Presiding Officer NPA

Members are being very generous about taking interventions, but I am conscious that we are pressed for time, so I am making members aware of that. 15:05

Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab

Before I tempt the cabinet secretary into his usual tired and tedious tirade about us never supporting anything he does—and I will—let me establish some comm...

James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP

I chaired the conference last week where Keir Bloomer made the comments that the member mentioned. However, he also said that he supports the direction that ...

Iain Gray Lab

The quotations that I gave were of what he said at the conference, but it is true that Keir Bloomer is a friend of much of the direction that the cabinet sec...

Liz Smith Con

Will the member take an intervention?

Iain Gray Lab

No, I am sorry, but I will not. That was in the Government’s own summary of the consultation. Parents, teachers, headteachers, councils and educationists ar...

John Swinney SNP

Two weeks ago, when I set out the proposals, Mr Gray welcomed the purpose of regional collaboratives, which is to provide increased educational development r...

Iain Gray Lab

No. Let me come on to that point, because it is important. Recruiting headteachers and teachers is already a problem. Our teachers already have lower salari...

Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green

If the Scottish Government is serious about closing the multiple attainment gaps, ending inequality and raising standards in education, it needs to listen—to...

John Swinney SNP

Mr Greer has just made a point that I have made, which is that decisions about education are taken most effectively as close as possible to where that educat...

Ross Greer Green

I do not need to marshal the arguments, because they are made in the Government’s consultation document by the teachers themselves. Teachers were exceptional...