Chamber
Meeting of the Parliament 15 June 2017
15 Jun 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education Governance
Under the charter, headteachers will be responsible for selection of staff in their schools, but they will not be the employers of their staff. Local authorities will continue to be the employers. My judgment is that if 32 human resources systems is too many, I do not want to move to having 2,500. Local authorities will be the employers of teachers and will deal with HR matters, but headteachers will be free to select the teachers who will teach in their schools. Where there are performance issues or other such matters, the local authority will have to be involved, but that will be at the instigation of the headteacher.
Secondly, I am not prescribing how many regional collaboratives there should be, but they will have to involve a number of local authorities. I will consult local government on the matter. I have it in mind that there should probably be six or seven regional collaboratives, but I am not wedded to those numbers.
Thirdly, I do not envisage councillors being on the collaboratives; rather, I envisage the collaboratives being composed of education professionals who will work together to enhance the support that I talked about to Mr Gray, and ensure that pedagogical expertise is available to schools. Again, however, I am prepared to discuss the issues with our local authority partners.
In the same item of business
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame)
SNP
The next item of business is a statement by John Swinney on education governance—next steps. The cabinet secretary will take questions at the end of his stat...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney)
SNP
The Government was elected last year on a platform of radical and bold action to make Scottish education world class for all our young people. That commitmen...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con)
Con
The Parliament knows that, for several decades, the Scottish Conservatives have wanted to see a school system that involves real devolution to headteachers. ...
John Swinney
SNP
I welcome Liz Smith’s comments about empowering schools and headteachers. I believe that that is the right step to take to ensure that decisions about the ed...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab)
Lab
The cabinet secretary will expect me to begin by welcoming something that he has done, so I am delighted to welcome the fact that he has dropped the idea of ...
John Swinney
SNP
I welcome Iain Gray’s two points of welcome. Even he will acknowledge that it is the fundamental duty of a minister to consider propositions that are put to ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
There are 13 more members who want to ask questions—the clue is in the word “questions”. I call Jenny Gilruth, to be followed by Jeremy Balfour.
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP)
SNP
I remind members that I am the parliamentary liaison officer to the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills. Is the cabinet secretary aware of the recent...
John Swinney
SNP
The National Parent Forum of Scotland undertook a very good and rigorous review of the legislation that is in place and has made a number of recommendations,...
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con)
Con
I thank the cabinet secretary for his statement. I ask him to clarify three points. Will headteachers have the power to employ and sack teachers in their sch...
John Swinney
SNP
Under the charter, headteachers will be responsible for selection of staff in their schools, but they will not be the employers of their staff. Local authori...
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP)
SNP
The Education and Skills Committee recently took from teachers evidence in which workload was a recurring theme. I welcome the reassurance that the cabinet s...
John Swinney
SNP
First, I say to Mr Dornan that I remain focused on reducing workload because that is a necessary step to free up the space to enable teachers to enhance lear...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab)
Lab
Regarding the cabinet secretary’s remarks about alternative routes to teaching, can he say what the minimum amount of time spent in lectures and on supervise...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
No, Mr Johnson. One question, not a whole sequence of them.
John Swinney
SNP
With no disrespect to Mr Johnson, I say that I suspect that we could have a long parliamentary committee session exploring the detail of those questions. The...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP)
SNP
I will follow up Jenny Gilruth’s question. We have areas in Glasgow—particularly poorer areas—in which there are schools that have no parent council because ...
John Swinney
SNP
The way to deal with that is to encourage parents to be involved in the school as part of the learning process. I think it was on Monday that I was in St Th...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Cabinet secretary, you are speaking away from your microphone. I know that you are doing so out of politeness to a member who is sitting at the back, but no ...
John Swinney
SNP
I apologise because that was disrespectful to you, Presiding Officer. I was in St Thomas’ RC primary school in the east end of Glasgow at Smithycroft, on M...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green)
Green
I, too, thank the cabinet secretary for giving us advance sight of his statement. He began by saying that headteachers do not want to become chief administra...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
I hope that you heard my sigh.
Ross Greer
Green
I did, Presiding Officer. That was my question.
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
Yes. You have asked your question. Please sit down.
John Swinney
SNP
I reiterate to Mr Greer that I have absolutely no intention of turning headteachers into chief administrators of their schools—I want them to be leaders of l...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD)
LD
I agree with the cabinet secretary’s direction of travel but not his logic on Education Scotland. Will he confirm that under the proposals, education regions...
John Swinney
SNP
I do not accept that characterisation. I am happy to discuss those questions in some detail, because I do not think that Mr Scott and I are in disagreement i...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP)
SNP
Does the cabinet secretary agree that moves by councils such as the Labour-Tory-run North Lanarkshire Council to divert pupil equity funding from its intende...
The Deputy Presiding Officer
SNP
No, no. You have had your question, Mr MacGregor.
Fulton MacGregor
SNP
—at the decision of the administration in North Lanarkshire to cut hundreds of classroom assistants from schools, removing support from the children and youn...