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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 17 May 2017

17 May 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Teacher Training Programme
Gilruth, Jenny SNP Mid Fife and Glenrothes Watch on SPTV

I remind members that I am the parliamentary liaison officer for the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills.

My youthful appearance may dissuade members from believing this, but a decade ago I was preparing to take up my place at Jordanhill, which was then the University of Strathclyde’s teacher training campus, to study for a postgraduate qualification in modern studies teaching. CFE was in its infancy. On my course was a former police officer by the name of Colin, who told me that, by the time the police had arrested someone, the damage had already been done. To him, criminality was cyclical but he felt that, as a teacher at the chalkface, moulding minds in the classroom, he could really make a difference. It was an observation that has stayed with me.

Last week, my colleague James Dornan posed perhaps the most pertinent question that someone could ever be asked in teaching: “What made you want to become a teacher?” The panel in the Education and Skills Committee answered with a variety of responses. Some stood out, such as that teachers could make a difference and change lives. The one that I liked best was:

“I really wanted to be there for the light-bulb moment when a child ... just gets it.”—[Official Report, Education and Skills Committee, 10 May 2017; c 3.]

We should not lose sight of the reasons that pull people into the profession, particularly given the current climate in Scottish education.

The Government’s amendment to the motion does not hide from the very real challenges that we face in Scottish education. The narrative of challenge has been quite clear since the 2015 Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development review. Last week the SSLN data was published and the Government’s report into initial teacher education was published today. There is a robust rationale for reforming Scottish education, but reform should not come at the expense of the morale of those working hard in the system right now. As a headteacher in my constituency put it to me: “We need to attract the best of the best.”

The Conservative motion raises issues regarding the teacher-training placement process. In August 2015, I was called by the deputy head in my school and asked whether I could take a student teacher. I thought about it and decided that, with a wee bit of rejigging of the timetable, yes, we could probably accommodate a student teacher. A few days later I was told “Actually, Jenny, there’s another one. Could you take two? The university has nowhere to send them.” Course choice for pupils in our secondary schools kicks in after the exam diet, so by June of every academic year our high schools know how many pupils they have in every department and our primary schools know what the intake is for the new primary 1. Universities should therefore be proactively engaging with local schools far earlier to establish suitable student placements. I never thought that I would hear myself saying this, but I absolutely agree with Daniel Johnson on that point.

The teachers who gave evidence at last week’s Education and Skills Committee meeting commented to my colleagues that teaching cannot be learned until it had been seen and that placement was the real benefit and highlight. However, anecdotal evidence is disparate, as we would expect in any profession, so I carried out my own homework. A teacher who qualified in 2013 and completed the bachelor of education degree told me that he had had some fantastic placements. In one school, he spent time visiting specific teachers who were focused on certain areas, observing Mr McDonald’s co-operative learning strategies, Miss Somerville’s use of effective tracking and monitoring and Mr Swinney’s behaviour management strategies, for example. Another friend who is a secondary headteacher told me that, yes, there was a real need for our teaching universities to focus on literacy and numeracy, but she also flagged up the importance of the health and wellbeing of pupils as a fundamental in teacher training. The last person I spoke to is a principal teacher in an additional support needs school with straight-through provision, and she said, tellingly, “You learn how to teach well if you get a good mentor on placement.”

So, yes, there is work for our teaching universities to do on course content, but if we accept that the majority of student teacher learning happens on placement, we need to address radically how our schools timetable that student teacher experience.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
As I said earlier, we have cut into the time for the next debate, so I ask for a quick turnaround, please. The next item of business is a debate on motion S...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to my entry in the register of members’ interests, which intimates that I am a member of the General Teaching Council for Scotland....
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
There are a number of important issues in the debate, and I welcome the opportunity to discuss them in Parliament. I confirm that my amendment is complementa...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
On that principle, a factor that was mentioned in the Education and Skills Committee today is placements in schools. The representative from Moray House told...
John Swinney SNP
The answer to that point is that there must be in place an efficient system for ensuring the timely delivery of placements for young people who are going thr...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The Deputy First Minister is aware that the committee heard that the experience of trainee teachers was that they were welcomed by staff who wanted to suppor...
John Swinney SNP
As Johann Lamont knows, I have been tackling workload in schools. I was discussing the issue this morning, at Kirkton primary school in Carluke, where I spok...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Talented, inspirational teachers can transform a student’s experience of school and their ability to learn and achieve. I am sure that we will hear many such...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Does Daniel Johnson accept that in all subjects—including mine, accountancy—the teaching at university tends to be a little on the theoretical side, and that...
Daniel Johnson Lab
The trainees’ evidence was that the emphasis on the theory was too heavy, and that it was not until they were in the classroom that they learned anything of ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to open speeches. Speakers will be cut out unless everyone is very disciplined. I ask speakers to go for three and a half minutes, please. 16:14
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I declare an interest in that I am married to a primary school teacher and have two children at primary school. The issue of the standards of teaching in our...
Jenny Gilruth (Mid Fife and Glenrothes) (SNP) SNP
I remind members that I am the parliamentary liaison officer for the Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills. My youthful appea...
The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
Thank you very much for your time-keeping. Next is Johann Lamont, to be followed by Fulton MacGregor. 16:22
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
In response to Jenny Gilruth’s comments, I am sure that all members will be shocked to realise that my youthful appearance belies the fact that I started tea...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I congratulate Liz Smith on her motion, which seems to have brought a degree of consensus to the chamber. As others have done in their opening remarks, I tha...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I do not have time, Johann. Sorry. No one would disagree that, to ensure quality teachers, education programmes need to be of the highest quality in all the...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Over the past few months, the Education and Skills Committee has held meetings on teacher training and on wider related issues—namely, additional support nee...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
The essence of the evidence that has been given to the Education and Skills Committee in the past two weeks on teacher education—we were reminded today to ca...
Liam Kerr (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
I declare an interest in that my wife is an additional support needs teacher. Like Ross Greer, I feel that one of the most concerning issues that has been ra...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
I am not on the Education and Skills Committee, but I am happy to take part in today’s debate, because I hold education as a whole, and our education system,...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I join Johann Lamont in welcoming the tone of the debate, which has perhaps been more measured than some of our other education debates—it has certainly been...
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
Teachers play a critical role in our society and it is vital that they receive training that allows them to enter the classroom with confidence. That is espe...
The Presiding Officer NPA
Minister, please begin to wind up. You are supposed to have five minutes.
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Among those members were Ross Greer and Liam Kerr. Initial support is being taken seriously as part of our work to continue to review professional standards....
Ross Thomson (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Everyone in the teaching profession should be in no doubt as to the value that we attach to it—not simply for young people but for the country as a whole. It...