Hansard

The Convener: Lab

The next item on the agenda is a discussion on dealing with offending by young people—a topic that has exercised people from time to time and caused some con...

Philip Rycroft (Scottish Government Director General Education):

I will invite my two colleagues to contribute as questions are asked because I am relatively new to the domain and Colin Maclean and Donna Bell have deep exp...

The Convener: Lab

Thank you. Before I invite members to ask questions, I want to pursue a couple of points that you made in your opening statement. You said that ministers are...

Philip Rycroft:

In a sense, it is not for me to guarantee anything around the financial packages. I am sure that you can talk to the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Sustai...

The Convener: Lab

Yes, but has the minister indicated to local government that she expects there to be no reduction in the resources available for tackling offending by young ...

Philip Rycroft:

All ministers have indicated—and agreed with local government—that local government will work with the Government to achieve the national outcomes. It will b...

The Convener: Lab

So there is no guidance, no expectation and no indication to local government about how much should be spent on tackling reoffending. General outcomes are sp...

Philip Rycroft:

It will be for local government to decide how it works towards achieving the national outcomes. I should add that it is only a week since the concordat was s...

The Convener: Lab

I understand that, but, as things stand, no requirement will be put on local government to spend money at the current level on dealing with offending by youn...

Philip Rycroft:

Decisions across the range of local government expenditure are for local government. That is absolutely explicit in the concordat that has been signed.

The Convener: Lab

That is perfectly clear.

George Foulkes (Lothians) (Lab): Lab

Annex B of the concordat states that there is no longer ring fencing for antisocial behaviour funding, funding for community safety partnerships, the police ...

Philip Rycroft:

I anticipated that this session might turn into more of a forward-looking one than a backward-looking one. Of course we were consulted on that. We were absol...

George Foulkes: Lab

Do you think it is a good thing that funding for those things is no longer ring fenced?

Philip Rycroft:

If ministers did not think it was a good thing that it was not ring fenced, it would still be ring fenced.

George Foulkes: Lab

What is your view?

The Convener: Lab

I do not think that it is for Mr Rycroft to answer that question—it is a matter for the minister. Our concerns are about whether the resources will be availa...

George Foulkes: Lab

With respect, convener, is it not a material issue in respect of whether the resources will be available?

The Convener: Lab

It is a material issue, but it is one for the minister rather than for Mr Rycroft.

George Foulkes: Lab

I see. We will have to question the minister.

The Convener: Lab

That may well be the case.

Philip Rycroft:

It is worth pointing out that the overall resource envelope for local government will increase during the spending review period, in the context of a clear a...

George Foulkes: Lab

But it would be possible not to spend money on the areas that are not ring fenced and to move it into a completely different area.

Philip Rycroft:

That is, in theory, entirely true—just as it would be possible for a local authority not to spend any money on schools and instead to spend it all on parks o...

The Convener: Lab

I understand that, but it involves a huge leap of faith.When I was the Deputy Minister for Health and Community Care, a local authority, which will remain na...

Philip Rycroft:

Yes.

The Convener: Lab

Do you have any evidence that they have not been used appropriately?

Philip Rycroft:

You will be aware that we have very little evidence about their use for under-16s, because as I understand it only six have been issued, which does not give ...

The Convener: Lab

But you have no evidence that they have been used inappropriately.

Philip Rycroft:

By the same token, we do not. However, we have a lot of evidence that, to address offending behaviour, it is not sufficient only to go for the offending bit;...