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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 26 April 2017

26 Apr 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Carers and Social Care
Dornan, James SNP Glasgow Cathcart Watch on SPTV

I am kind of hoping that you will cut my time.

The post sums up the feeling that has been outlined in the debate. It was by a carer—Jessica Gentry—in England, but carers from throughout England, Northern Ireland, Wales and, of course, Scotland commented on how accurate it was and how it resonated with them. Jessica Gentry said that she looked for signs of a stroke and waited for an ambulance, gave out 15 lots of medication, supported relatives, made 25 cups of tea, locked 17 doors, checked food supplies, and reassured patients with dementia. The list continued. When I saw that post, which was shared by carers in my constituency and throughout Scotland, I was deeply touched by it. To be frank, I was once again in awe of the amazing work that those people commit themselves to so diligently.

If a relative of mine was in need of care, I would hope that they would receive the best care that we were able to provide. In order for us to provide a full and comprehensive care package to those who are most in need, we must support those carers who are on the front line when it comes to provision.

Recently, I had a meeting with a group of home carers in my constituency. They are a passionate and committed group of carers who are determined to do the best for those they care for, but they are also determined to ensure that they get a fair deal. That meeting prompted me to ask the Government

“what action it can take to ensure that local authorities meet their moral and legal obligations in settling equal pay claims, and what discussions it has had with Glasgow City Council regarding this.”

That extremely hard-working and committed group of carers was being treated as though they were less than equal to men. I will go on to talk about gardeners and grave-diggers who work for the council. I completely accept that they do a very difficult job, but they are graded higher than those people, who maybe do some of the most difficult, and certainly some of the most important, jobs in society.

Homecare Glasgow became an arm’s-length body a number of years ago, and many of those involved in the equal pay fight claim that that was Glasgow City Council’s way of excluding those carers in the fight for pay equality. If that was the case, the council has been unsuccessful, as the home carers have become an integral part of the equal pay movement and are determined to get what is rightfully theirs.

I have spoken to Mark Irvine, who is one of the leading advocates for that campaign. He told me that part of the problem is that the carers provide a

“Cinderella service and ... they don’t have a traditional place of work which makes it harder for them to bring together involved parties such as outside bodies, family members and of course the client requiring care”.

As the demands on carers seem to be getting greater, it seems that authorities such as Glasgow City Council are more resistant to matching the demands with resources. Studies that campaign groups have done show that home carers are still not paid as well as those in more traditional male council roles, such as the gardeners and grave-diggers I mentioned. That is grossly unfair, and it is just not conducive to providing the best possible care for those who need it most. It is more than clear that those carers deserve the best support, pay and recognition that authorities have to offer.

I want to go back to the answer that Annie Wells gave Patrick Harvie. If you do not think that carers should be entitled to the living wage, and if attracting carers is not about pay and conditions, what do you think can be done to make the job more attractive to people? If you think that we need to attract people, as we clearly do, why did you vote against the £100 million that could have made caring more attractive for people? I am more than happy to take an intervention if you have a response to that.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-05312, in the name of Alison Johnstone, on carers and social care. 14:43
Alison Johnstone (Lothian) (Green) Green
I am proud to lead a debate that calls for greater recognition and support for all those who provide care, whether by working in our overstretched social car...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
I am pleased to take part in a debate that raises these important issues. The Scottish Government’s vision of a healthier, fairer and wealthier Scotland plac...
Miles Briggs (Lothian) (Con) Con
Will the cabinet secretary confirm whether housekeeping staff will also be paid the living wage?
Shona Robison SNP
The focus has been on workers who deliver social care. It has been a very unusual step to have a Government putting public money into what are, in essence, p...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
I am pleased to speak in the debate today and to show my gratitude to the hundreds of thousands of social work staff members and unpaid carers who work tirel...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
The member recognises the importance of social care work, as well as the challenges of recruitment and retention. Why, then, does the Tory amendment delete a...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
I should say that there is time in hand for all members who want to make interventions in the debate. We can be quite generous.
Annie Wells Con
I think that we all agree that the living wage is a good thing, but there are problems with its implementation. Providers are struggling to cover the increas...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Colin Smyth. Mr Smyth, I can give you a generous six minutes—which means that you will get more than six minutes. 15:09
Colin Smyth (South Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Thank you very much indeed, Presiding Officer. I refer members to my entry in the register of members’ interests. I am a local councillor, and I was previou...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We now move to the open debate. As I have said, we have time in hand. 15:16
James Dornan (Glasgow Cathcart) (SNP) SNP
There can hardly be a job that is more important than providing care for the most vulnerable members of society. The home carers workforce is among the most ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You should not antagonise me so early in your speech: I can be vindictive.
James Dornan SNP
I am kind of hoping that you will cut my time. The post sums up the feeling that has been outlined in the debate. It was by a carer—Jessica Gentry—in Englan...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind the member to use the member’s name rather than “you”, for the Official Report.
James Dornan SNP
Sorry. I was addressing that to Annie Wells, Conservative MSP for the Glasgow region.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
That is just a wee bit cheeky—
James Dornan SNP
While we are discussing—
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
No—sit down, Mr Dornan. You are verging on being a wee bit cheeky, and it is not going down well with me.
James Dornan SNP
Sorry, Presiding Officer. You asked me to identify her. While we are discussing care, it would be wrong of me not to mention home carers who are not employe...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
I thank the Greens for bringing the issue to Parliament, because it is important that we discuss social care and carers. It is an issue that affects people d...
The Minister for Public Health and Sport (Aileen Campbell) SNP
The member is articulating a case that services require more investment. This Government has given local government a fair settlement. What is the member’s v...
Graham Simpson Con
The impact on councils comes from the money that this Government gives them, which has been cut year on year—that affects carers. The number of adults in n...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Graham Simpson Con
Not just now. There are huge challenges. Audit Scotland said: “Social work departments are facing significant challenges because of a combination of finan...
Shona Robison SNP
The member has said on three occasions that he thinks that local government should get more money. Will he say how much more money and where that money has t...
Graham Simpson Con
The cabinet secretary knows that that is a matter of choice. The SNP Government—her Government—has taken the choice year on year to cut councils’ budgets. Th...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
A person who was far better and wiser than I am said: “The true measure of any society can be found in how it treats its most vulnerable members.” In today...
Mark Ruskell (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Green) Green
I declare an interest in that I am a councillor. This is probably the final time that I will declare that interest. I also declare my financial contribution ...