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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 25 April 2017

25 Apr 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Child Tax Credit Cuts
Davidson, Ruth Con Edinburgh Central Watch on SPTV

I agreed with her then, and I still do.

The First Minister gave monetary examples, so let me put them in context. A one-parent family with two children where the parent works 16 hours a week on the minimum wage can claim monetary benefits of just under £19,000 a year. Added to salary, that comes to the equivalent of an earned income of £32,000. I cite those figures only to give context to the numbers that the First Minister gave.

The package of reforms was voted through the House of Commons—and I note in passing that many Labour MPs abstained at the equivalent of stage 2. It was during the consultation phase, prior to implementation, that the question of exemptions was raised. In respect of multiple births, children who are adopted and the rare cases in which the birth of a third or subsequent child is the consequence of rape, the UK Government agreed that the two-child restriction should not apply. I support those exemptions. Indeed, I cannot imagine that there is a single member of the Parliament who does not. There may be many who disagree with capping child tax credits at the first two children, but surely not with such exemptions to the cap being put in place.

We then come to the question of implementation. I am sorry to say that, on this issue, too many people have simply not been clear with the facts. I have heard members of the Parliament say on television that women must complete an eight-page form in order to receive the exemption. That is simply not correct.

On the detail of how it works, I quote the Department for Work and Pensions consultation response on the matter, published in January. It says:

“Neither DWP nor HMRC staff will question the claimant about the incident other than to take the claim and receive the supporting evidence from the third party professional.”

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-05282, in the name of Nicola Sturgeon, on child tax credit cuts. I call the First Minister to speak to an...
The First Minister (Nicola Sturgeon) SNP
Last Thursday, together with Kezia Dugdale, Willie Rennie, Patrick Harvie and many MSPs from across the chamber, I attended the demonstration against the rap...
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Is the First Minister surprised to learn that this is, in fact, the second time that the Conservatives have sought to introduce this policy, after they were ...
The First Minister SNP
No, I am not surprised to hear that, because I know that. While I oppose many of the benefit cuts, I think that this one—particularly the rape clause that fl...
The Presiding Officer NPA
I call on Ruth Davidson to speak to and move the amendment in her name. 14:32
Ruth Davidson (Edinburgh Central) (Con) Con
First, let me say that I welcome this debate today, not because it is about an issue that is easy to discuss in public—something so appalling never is—but be...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Ruth Davidson Con
I am sorry, but I have a lot to get through and I will not be taking any interventions. Members: Oh!
Ruth Davidson Con
I do not think that this issue should be subject to the knockabout that we see here in the chamber daily. Of course, there is a political judgment, which an...
Kezia Dugdale Lab
Will the member give way on that point?
Ruth Davidson Con
Inevitably, that means examining many budgets, including the welfare budget. It has meant, for example, removing child benefit from higher earners. The issue...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Ruth Davidson Con
In other words, parents of three or more children who are currently claiming tax credits will still continue to do so.
Neil Findlay Lab
Will you not defend your own policy?
Ruth Davidson Con
I accept that, for many MSPs, the change is far from welcome. These are difficult judgment calls. When, in 2015, the UK Government initially proposed cutting...
The Minister for Childcare and Early Years (Mark McDonald) SNP
Will the member give way?
Ruth Davidson Con
I agreed with her then, and I still do. The First Minister gave monetary examples, so let me put them in context. A one-parent family with two children wher...
Neil Findlay Lab
On a point of order, Presiding Officer.
Ruth Davidson Con
It adds that “women are not placed in the position of having to give details about the rape to DWP or HMRC officials”.
The Presiding Officer NPA
I am sorry, Ms Davidson, but there is a point of order from Mr Findlay.
Neil Findlay Lab
Presiding Officer, I was under the impression that this was a debating chamber. Is it not appalling that the leader of the Opposition in the Parliament is un...
The Presiding Officer NPA
That is not a point of order. All members know that it is entirely at their own discretion whether to take an intervention or not.
Ruth Davidson Con
There is absolutely no requirement to report rape as a crime, to provide proof of rape or to provide proof of conviction. A woman writes her name and a third...
The First Minister SNP
Will Ruth Davidson take an intervention?
Ruth Davidson Con
That third-party model already exists in the benefit system to support victims of domestic violence. Members: Give way—go on.
Ruth Davidson Con
The third-party professionals— Members: Give way!
The Presiding Officer NPA
Order. The member is not taking an intervention.
Ruth Davidson Con
It is important that we do not wilfully misrepresent the process, causing fear and alarm. Let me outline the process to members again. The woman writes her n...
The Presiding Officer NPA
There is another point of order.