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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 March 2017

29 Mar 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education

I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate—albeit briefly—and I thank the Liberal Democrats for bringing the issue to the chamber.

I hope that the Scottish Government will commit to focusing more rigorously on education in the coming period, given the significant mandate that it has in relation to the issue. My greatest regret, following the two-day debate that we had about the referendum, is the opportunity costs that there will be over the next period as a result of the focus that the Government has chosen. There is a danger that all of Scotland’s talent in Government, local government and the civil service, as well as the talent in civic Scotland, will be focused on an imagined future, not the real and fundamental challenges that we face in creating an education system that matches our ambitions for the people of Scotland. Instead of making the tough choices that I believe need to be made, the Government will settle for what keeps everyone happy because of a putative vote in a couple of years’ time.

The Scottish Government needs to fully acknowledge the challenges presented to it by the Education and Skills Committee’s evidence on education bodies, much of which has already been rehearsed. Central to the issue is hearing what teachers and other education professionals—people working in schools—say, rather than seeking to explain away what they say. The Deputy First Minister quite rightly talks about the importance of valuing staff and recognising the job that they do every day. However, the first principle of that involves listening to what they say about the barriers that they face in trying to do their jobs. That would be real respect. Rather than trying to explain away what staff are saying, it would be better for the Government to try to understand properly why so many people across education are so exercised.

There is an issue about the profound lack of clarity about the responsibility of individual education bodies and who is accountable. The evidence demonstrates that there is a lot of buck passing. In a world in which all are responsible, ultimately none is responsible. Indeed, Education Scotland says that, with regard to the extent to which it has authority over policy, there are a lot of action points for discussion by the management board of the curriculum for excellence. We need better than action points for discussion; we need someone to get a grip of some of these issues.

The dual role of Education Scotland has been highlighted already. I recommend that people read the Official Report of the exchange on that matter between me and the head of Education Scotland. There is a dilemma. Education Scotland gives the Government private advice that is not known to the rest of us; it has a responsibility to implement policy, regardless of whether it thinks that the policy is wise; and, ultimately, it has the responsibility to inspect the impact of the policy, a role that many education academics have said is a major weakness. That really needs to be addressed.

We are in a position in which the body that is implementing Government policy is not then looking at and testing the merits of the policy, but is looking at its implementation. It is impossible to conceive of a way in which that body could then say to Government that the Government is wrong. The evidence is that it says instead that the teachers do not understand and that there is a problem in communication. Maybe, sometimes, there is a problem with the policy, but it is not clear how that message would get back to the Government. Indeed, it is not clear how confident education professionals would be to say that the policy was the problem rather than the degree of guidance. The Government needs to address that fundamental issue.

There is institutional protection going on. The instinct is to say, “They have a problem. They did not agree with us. There is a conservative lack of desire for change.”

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-04920, in the name of Tavish Scott, on education. I call Tavish Scott to speak to and move the motion. 1...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
On Monday, I witnessed Whiteness primary school’s senior pupils performing “Henry VIII”. The play has a lot to say about politics at the moment, but I partic...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I am grateful to Mr Scott for giving way. As he goes through the information about benchmarks, would he acknowledge that the number of pages that he has cite...
Tavish Scott LD
Yes. There is much in that argument, although I suspect that it would be inordinately helpful to teachers the length and breadth of the country if the Deputy...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
The debate must be set in the context of our determination to improve performance in Scottish education. We have a good education system, with hard-working a...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the Deputy First Minister recognise the work of the Institute for Public Policy Research, which has discussed positive destinations and said that we sho...
John Swinney SNP
The positive destinations analysis has been a reasonably long-term assessment of trends that has spanned many years. In the labour market strategy, we are co...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
John Swinney made it abundantly clear last week, in responding to a poor inspection report on Argyll and Bute Council, that when it comes to improving standa...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Like Liz Smith, I have carefully studied Mr Swinney’s speech last week, in which he declared that “the status quo is not an option” in our schools. I agre...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate. We are extremely tight for time, so there is no leeway at all on the time limit of four minutes. 15:07
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Last night, when I discussed the topic of the motion with my wife, who is a primary school teacher of 15 years’ experience, she gave me an insight into the m...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I hear teachers say, “Leave us alone—let the curriculum bed in,” all the time. Does the member not agree that changing the governance structures of the educa...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Not when that is exactly the intervention that our teachers are asking for. The most recent example of the Government’s tendency has been the advent of nati...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, please.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I will, Presiding Officer. This is symptomatic of the Government’s approach of measurement, meddling and micromanagement, and I am therefore quite happy to s...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
In my contribution, I will concentrate on the first part of the Liberal Democrat motion, which refers to inspections. As a member of the Education and Skill...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
From the evidence that the committee has gathered, there seems to be a disconnect between the value that headteachers place on inspections and the value that...
Gillian Martin SNP
I have heard that kind of stuff, too, and I think that it is a cultural thing. The previous inspections regime was so onerous—and I will say more about this ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Education should serve two functions: it should enrich the minds of students and prepare them for the modern workforce. My colleague Liz Smith said that rece...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate—albeit briefly—and I thank the Liberal Democrats for bringing the issue to the chamber. I hope that the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must close, please.
Johann Lamont Lab
That is not good enough. We know that people are trying to do their best. I believe that the proposed change in the role of Education Scotland would play a p...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Our education agencies play a vital role in ensuring that pupils get a strong education. Their performance has a real impact. As members are aware, the Educa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The last contribution in the open debate is from Fulton MacGregor. 15:28
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
First, I would like to apologise for my hoarse voice. I have had the flu that has been going around—or, as I have been told by my partner several times this ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
No—there is not a lot of time. My constituency contains some of the most deprived areas in Scotland, according to the Scottish index of multiple deprivation...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I do not have time. Education Scotland already runs independently of Government, but I would support a review of the processes that are in place—as Ross Gre...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member must close.