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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 29 March 2017

29 Mar 2017 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Education
Martin, Gillian SNP Aberdeenshire East Watch on SPTV

I have heard that kind of stuff, too, and I think that it is a cultural thing. The previous inspections regime was so onerous—and I will say more about this in a moment—that there is a disconnect with the inspectorate’s message that it is there to help teachers develop, instead of taking a clipboard approach. That message has yet to percolate through, and it is incumbent on local authorities and headteachers to get it down to classroom level.

Another issue that has been raised by the Liberal Democrats is the conflict of interest in having the inspectorate as part of Education Scotland. I am not wholly convinced by the argument; I can see what they mean on the face of it, but I do not think that there is a pressing case for separation and going back to having two separate bodies. Education Scotland provides insight into the practical implementation of education policy through its school inspection programme and other quality assurance activities at school and local authority level. Scotland is not alone in taking that approach; Norway has a similar body that takes an integrated approach to curriculum development, learning and teaching, and inspection. It builds on a three-tier approach to quality assurance that puts practitioner self-evaluation at the heart of things, which is only right. As a former education practitioner, I know that self-evaluation and peer evaluation are among the most effective ways of carrying out continuing professional development.

As it stands, Education Scotland does not determine the design or the content of the curriculum that is being inspected—that is the SQA’s job. Rather, Education Scotland takes that curriculum and develops it in partnership with local authorities, teachers and the inspectors. The inspections are part and parcel of that development. If inspections truly are moving away from the culture of judgment and are, as committee witnesses and teaching practitioners to whom I have spoken have suggested, becoming more of a professional development tool, separating the inspectors from Education Scotland might be a backwards step for Scottish education. To be honest, there are probably more pressing issues, such as getting the message across that the culture of inspections has changed wholly—Ross Greer mentioned that issue—rather than throwing the baby out with the bath water and going back to an HMIE-type situation.

15:15  

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-04920, in the name of Tavish Scott, on education. I call Tavish Scott to speak to and move the motion. 1...
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
On Monday, I witnessed Whiteness primary school’s senior pupils performing “Henry VIII”. The play has a lot to say about politics at the moment, but I partic...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I am grateful to Mr Scott for giving way. As he goes through the information about benchmarks, would he acknowledge that the number of pages that he has cite...
Tavish Scott LD
Yes. There is much in that argument, although I suspect that it would be inordinately helpful to teachers the length and breadth of the country if the Deputy...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
The debate must be set in the context of our determination to improve performance in Scottish education. We have a good education system, with hard-working a...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
Does the Deputy First Minister recognise the work of the Institute for Public Policy Research, which has discussed positive destinations and said that we sho...
John Swinney SNP
The positive destinations analysis has been a reasonably long-term assessment of trends that has spanned many years. In the labour market strategy, we are co...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
John Swinney made it abundantly clear last week, in responding to a poor inspection report on Argyll and Bute Council, that when it comes to improving standa...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Like Liz Smith, I have carefully studied Mr Swinney’s speech last week, in which he declared that “the status quo is not an option” in our schools. I agre...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
We move to the open debate. We are extremely tight for time, so there is no leeway at all on the time limit of four minutes. 15:07
Alex Cole-Hamilton (Edinburgh Western) (LD) LD
Last night, when I discussed the topic of the motion with my wife, who is a primary school teacher of 15 years’ experience, she gave me an insight into the m...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
I hear teachers say, “Leave us alone—let the curriculum bed in,” all the time. Does the member not agree that changing the governance structures of the educa...
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
Not when that is exactly the intervention that our teachers are asking for. The most recent example of the Government’s tendency has been the advent of nati...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must come to a close, please.
Alex Cole-Hamilton LD
I will, Presiding Officer. This is symptomatic of the Government’s approach of measurement, meddling and micromanagement, and I am therefore quite happy to s...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
In my contribution, I will concentrate on the first part of the Liberal Democrat motion, which refers to inspections. As a member of the Education and Skill...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
From the evidence that the committee has gathered, there seems to be a disconnect between the value that headteachers place on inspections and the value that...
Gillian Martin SNP
I have heard that kind of stuff, too, and I think that it is a cultural thing. The previous inspections regime was so onerous—and I will say more about this ...
Jamie Greene (West Scotland) (Con) Con
Education should serve two functions: it should enrich the minds of students and prepare them for the modern workforce. My colleague Liz Smith said that rece...
Johann Lamont (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to take part in the debate—albeit briefly—and I thank the Liberal Democrats for bringing the issue to the chamber. I hope that the...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
You must close, please.
Johann Lamont Lab
That is not good enough. We know that people are trying to do their best. I believe that the proposed change in the role of Education Scotland would play a p...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
Our education agencies play a vital role in ensuring that pupils get a strong education. Their performance has a real impact. As members are aware, the Educa...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The last contribution in the open debate is from Fulton MacGregor. 15:28
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
First, I would like to apologise for my hoarse voice. I have had the flu that has been going around—or, as I have been told by my partner several times this ...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
No—there is not a lot of time. My constituency contains some of the most deprived areas in Scotland, according to the Scottish index of multiple deprivation...
Johann Lamont Lab
Will the member take an intervention?
Fulton MacGregor SNP
I do not have time. Education Scotland already runs independently of Government, but I would support a review of the processes that are in place—as Ross Gre...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member must close.