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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 14 December 2016

14 Dec 2016 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Taxation

I welcome the opportunity to talk about tax this afternoon. I thank the Tories for bringing the debate to the chamber. I also thank them for the simplicity of their motion, because it gives us a chance to talk about first principles: what motivates us and what our priorities are. Is it not interesting that the Tories always start with the money?

The motion says:

“That the Parliament believes that families and businesses in Scotland should not be taxed more than those elsewhere in the UK.”

Surely they would never dream of lodging a motion that said that the Parliament believes that public services in Scotland should not be any better than those elsewhere in the United Kingdom. That is really the crux of the matter. If we want to protect our valued public services, we have to talk about how we pay for them and who pays for them.

I am a democratic socialist. I believe in the power of Government to transform people’s life chances. I believe that there is nothing inevitable about poverty. I believe that we do not have to accept inequality. My vision for Scotland is one awash with universal high-quality public services that everyone invests in and for which everyone pays their fair share.

I believe in this Parliament. It has been a feature of my whole adult life that came to being in my formative years. I was 15 in 1997, when Labour won the general election; 16 when the referendum that created this place took place; and 17 when the Parliament’s doors opened. I have always believed in this place as a means for Scotland to take its own decisions, in the best interests of the people of Scotland; if we do not accept that, we do not believe in devolution at all.

Austerity is hurting Scotland, and the poorest are hurting the most. I see that across the region that I represent. I have seen a mum working three part-time jobs, two of them on zero-hours contracts, with no security about her finances from one week to the next. Her bus and train fares are going up, but her wages have been frozen. I see the council cuts in her community taking away the breakfast clubs that help her to get to her jobs, and I see cuts to colleges that have taken away from her her chance of getting on in life. I see the cuts taking away the care of the tenement stair and diminishing the quality of her local community. The grass is overgrown, and the sense of pride in the community is deflated. I see her worry about the social care that her mum gets at home, with 15-minute visits. I see her local library being closed and that one place that she could take her kids to for free disappearing altogether.

It does not have to be that way. We can choose to do things differently.

In the same item of business

The Presiding Officer (Ken Macintosh) NPA
The next item is a debate on motion S5M-03063, in the name of Murdo Fraser, on taxation. 14:40
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
Tomorrow, the Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Constitution will deliver an historic budget. It will be historic not just because it will be the first b...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Murdo Fraser talks about gaps. Does he accept that we are talking about two separate things: the economy and taxation? Is he not concerned about the gap betw...
Murdo Fraser Con
There is a certain irony in that intervention from John Mason. During the independence referendum, Mr Mason and I did perhaps 30 debates around the country w...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
I am grateful to Murdo Fraser for giving way to someone who never endorsed what was in the SNP’s white paper. The UK Government has just made tax changes to...
Murdo Fraser Con
Mr Harvie is being ungenerous. He will know well that the measures that are being taken by the UK Government to more than double the threshold for income tax...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Will Mr Fraser take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
No. I need to make some progress. I will give way later, if I have time. Let us look ahead to the Scottish Government’s budget. Roughly half the total funds...
Willie Rennie (North East Fife) (LD) LD
Will Murdo Fraser take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
I have not taken an intervention from the Liberal Democrats yet, so I will give way.
Willie Rennie LD
Murdo Fraser seems to have ignored the real benefit of boosting skills in Scottish society in order to boost the economy. He seems to think that tax is the o...
Murdo Fraser Con
I am so disappointed in Willie Rennie’s approach to the debate. I remember those heady days when Tavish Scott led the Liberal Democrats and Mike Rumbles went...
Neil Findlay Lab
Will Murdo Fraser take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
I have not taken a Labour intervention, so I happily give way to Mr Findlay.
Neil Findlay Lab
If Murdo Fraser genuinely believes what he is saying, a way to spread the wealth would be to have more people with high-paid jobs to pay the higher taxes. Wh...
Murdo Fraser Con
I am so disappointed in Neil Findlay’s intervention. I have been following the debate at Westminster very closely. Even Jeremy Corbyn, and John McDonnell, th...
The Minister for Business, Innovation and Energy (Paul Wheelhouse) SNP
As my colleague the finance secretary has made clear previously in this chamber, the Scottish Government will confirm its tax proposals in its draft budget, ...
Willie Rennie LD
The minister is rightly parading the new powers that are coming to the Scottish Parliament, but why is his Government increasing the unfair council tax that ...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I will turn to council tax later, and I hope that Willie Rennie will pick up on those points. Income tax alone will account for the funding of more than a t...
Murdo Fraser Con
Will the minister give way?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am running short of time, but if the Presiding Officer allows some time for interventions, that will be gratefully received.
Murdo Fraser Con
I am very grateful to the minister for giving way. Does the minister agree with the basic proposition that has been set out by the former First Minister, Al...
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am trying to set out our understanding of that very point. By using the package of tax and revenues across the Scottish economy, we can have a more competi...
Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab) Lab
Will the minister take an intervention?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am struggling for time now. I ask the member to be brief, please.
Jackie Baillie Lab
I will be very brief. Will the minister reflect on the very first recommendation of the commission that he referred to, which was to abolish the council tax?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
Our reforms will protect household incomes, make local taxation fairer and ensure that local authorities continue to be properly funded, as I said. After tho...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the minister take an intervention?
Paul Wheelhouse SNP
I am sorry, but I am in the last moments of my speech. Other parties will no doubt take a different view on how those tax powers can be used. Although we r...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the opportunity to talk about tax this afternoon. I thank the Tories for bringing the debate to the chamber. I also thank them for the simplicity o...