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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 October 2016

04 Oct 2016 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Higher Education and Further Education (European Union Referendum)
Smith, Liz Con Mid Scotland and Fife Watch on SPTV

I want to be very clear at the start of my speech that further and higher education institutions in Scotland and, indeed, the UK are world class in terms of the quality of their teaching, their research and their efficiency. I also want to be clear that being part of the European Union has played a major role in that. I am sure that my colleagues will provide lots of evidence of that.

We should be in no doubt that what has made our colleges and universities great—over many centuries, in the case of universities—is their outward-looking approach. They have been pioneers in so many respects because they have been at the cutting edge of intellectual thought, invention, innovation and, in modern times, knowledge exchange, which is now so much a part of the important things that they do.

As we ponder the effects of Brexit, we should be in no doubt about the extent of the EU funding that has supported projects, but nor should we be in any doubt about the adaptability that our institutions have shown throughout their development and their ability to meet head on what seem like relentless challenges and attract new streams of funding. They will need all that imagination and creativity like never before. They will also need resilience, because it is not going to be an easy time.

Let me set out some things that are essential if the Brexit process is to be made more smooth. I will speak first about some interesting things that John Kemp, the interim chair of the Scottish funding council, and Professor Andrea Nolan, chairman of Universities Scotland, said when they were at the Education and Skills Committee just three weeks ago. They said that although definitive evidence is only in the process of being compiled, there are already cases in which the Scottish or UK lead in a research project is being downgraded from that position because there is now uncertainty about the financial sustainability of the project if some EU funding is lost. Indeed, I note the comment from the vice-chancellor at Sheffield Hallam University that he thought four out of 12 current projects are now under threat. If that tendency grows, or if the money is not replaced by other funds, there could clearly be serious detrimental effects.

Research money is not just the odd investment here and there. It is a sizeable amount and is therefore significant in terms of what a university and its collaborative partners can or cannot achieve. In that respect, the UK Higher Education Research Bill is crucial, and I thank the convener of the Education and Skills Committee—I do not think that he is in the chamber just now—for being prepared to bring some evidence to the committee.

The message must be that leaving the EU does not mean leaving Europe or, I hope, becoming any less European in our educational ambitions. Happily, there has been extensive growth in the number of collaborative projects with nations outwith the EU, most especially China, India, Canada, Australia and America. Such collaborative experiences must be worked on like never before, and in doing so we must make sure that we are as attractive as possible to students and staff from those nations.

The first thing that will help is the message that Government sends out—including the Westminster Government’s message about its approach to immigration. Members know that, prior to the Brexit vote, I had disagreements with my Westminster colleagues about the post-study work visa. Although I fully understand the practical failures within the previous system, which opened up too many loopholes in the immigration system, I firmly believe that a new post-study work visa can work, and work well, to the advantage of Scottish institutions and our economy. We have some of the best brains among the foreign nationals who are helping us with cutting-edge research to which millions of pounds of investment is attached. It cannot be right that, halfway through a project, they find that they must go home. If the universities of Bath, Cambridge and Oxford and Imperial College London can be permitted to run a pilot PSWV, so should universities in Scotland. I remain hopeful that we will get somewhere on that, and I was pleased to hear about the consultation process at the Conservative Party conference.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-01792, in the name of Shirley-Anne Somerville, on the implications of the European Union referendum for h...
The Minister for Further Education, Higher Education and Science (Shirley-Anne Somerville) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to open this afternoon’s debate. The people of Scotland gave a strong and unequivocal vote to remain in the European Union. I beli...
Ross Greer (West Scotland) (Green) Green
The news on the funding status of students from the rest of the EU who are starting in 2016 is much welcomed, but we have already seen in evidence to the Edu...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
I fully appreciate the point that Ross Greer makes. Staff and students in universities have made the same point to me when I have visited them, and they cont...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
The minister knows that I agree with much of what she has said about post-study work visas, but there has been some indication that there will be a consultat...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
It would be absolutely fantastic to have a consultation; and it would have been really good to have had the consultation before the four institutions in Engl...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I want to be very clear at the start of my speech that further and higher education institutions in Scotland and, indeed, the UK are world class in terms of ...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
I wonder whether Liz Smith would like to reflect on something else that came from the Conservative Party conference: the Prime Minister’s remark that clinici...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can allow Liz Smith some extra time for that intervention.
Liz Smith Con
Thank you, Presiding Officer. I agree with the cabinet secretary, up to a point. We need certainty and we need the message to be absolutely correct. However...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
We recently celebrated the news that five of our universities continue to be rated in the top 200 in the whole world—an astonishing achievement for a country...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Come to a close, please.
Iain Gray Lab
—and which we must now find ways to ensure survives the threat of Brexit.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
We move to the open debate. 16:17
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Scotland did not vote to leave the EU. We voted to remain. Scotland continually punches above its weight in research, which ensures access to competitive res...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I remind members that, as far as I am concerned, “in conclusion” and “finally” mean the same thing. 16:23
Jeremy Balfour (Lothian) (Con) Con
I think we can all agree that Scotland has one of the very best higher education sectors in the world. It is a tremendous achievement, of which Scotland shou...
Stuart McMillan SNP
On that point, will the member take an intervention?
Jeremy Balfour Con
I am sorry, but I need to push on. As recently stated by Nick Hillman of the Higher Education Policy Institute, universities are international institutes—an...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
I am very clear that universities do not need the EU for international collaboration, but they are already doing it. What is the upside for universities and ...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Bear with me—I will get there in a moment. As mentioned by Liz Smith, even if we leave the EU it does not mean that we will leave Europe or become less Euro...
Shirley-Anne Somerville SNP
Will the member give way?
Jeremy Balfour Con
I am sorry—I need to push on. It is possible for non-EU countries to contribute, based on their GDP. Clearly the UK will have to negotiate a new deal in ord...
Gillian Martin (Aberdeenshire East) (SNP) SNP
For once, I will not speak about colleges. I think that everyone expects me to speak about colleges all the time because I worked in one. However, while the ...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
One of the things that I have enjoyed most since becoming an MSP is the amazing visits that we get to go on. It is a huge pleasure and privilege for me to ha...
Liz Smith Con
Notwithstanding the very considerable downsides that we on this side of the chamber have admitted to, there are upsides. For example, we can do a lot, in par...
Daniel Johnson Lab
All that I heard was either about renegotiating our way back into programmes that we are in or about describing the international collaboration that we are d...
Jeremy Balfour Con
Is the Labour Party in favour of Brexit? Are you now campaigning for no Brexit?
Daniel Johnson Lab
We campaigned against Brexit—
Jeremy Balfour Con
And now?