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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 04 October 2016

04 Oct 2016 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Draft Budget 2017-18 (Timetable)
Johnstone, Alex Con North East Scotland Watch on SPTV

This has been a worthwhile debate that has been useful in highlighting some of the challenges that this Parliament faces in revising our processes following the devolution of significant new powers.

Before I summarise some of the excellent speeches that we have heard, I want to focus briefly on two issues. First, I want to comment on the need for some level of scenario planning to be published to support parliamentary scrutiny in advance of the publication of the draft budget; and, secondly, I will return briefly to some of the complexities of the challenge, which the convener mentioned in his thoughtful opening speech.

Members of the Finance Committee made it quite clear at our meeting on 7 September that, in agreeing to the draft budget being published after the UK autumn statement, some level of scenario planning would need to be provided prior to that. The cabinet secretary responded:

“I am willing to produce as much scenario planning information as I can.”—[Official Report, Finance Committee, 7 September 2016; c 16.]

The committee therefore finds it unacceptable that the cabinet secretary has gone on to say that he is not prepared to publish any such scenario planning. During the minister’s closing remarks, we heard a further extension of that form of words. Unfortunately, I believe that it will take some time to work out exactly what has been offered and what the outcome of that is likely to be. The committee considers that, without such information, it is unlikely that there will be sufficient opportunity for the subject committees to scrutinise the Government’s spending proposals.

I turn briefly to how we will address the complexities of the budget process in future years. As we have heard, the budget process review group will have the unenviable task of unravelling these complexities and designing a new process that meets the Government’s emphasis on accuracy and the Parliament’s emphasis on robust scrutiny. I am sure that that will involve a number of trade-offs and, in all probability, an element of compromise on all sides.

There are a number of issues that the committee has raised with the Scottish Government and which the review group is likely to consider. The first of those issues is data sharing. The fiscal framework makes it clear that the Scottish Government and the Scottish Fiscal Commission should

“have access to the necessary data, information and models held by the UK Government to support policy development and produce forecasts of a comparable quality to those produced by the OBR.”

That raises issues of timing and transparency. It is essential that data is made available timeously in order to maximise the time that is available for parliamentary scrutiny and that that data is published in a way that recognises the need for taxpayer confidentiality.

The second issue concerns levels of budgetary information. One of the benefits of budget scrutiny is that it has led to much greater levels of transparency in the budgetary information that is provided by the Scottish Government. The level of information that is provided regarding the operation of the fiscal framework will be vital in ensuring effective scrutiny, especially in relation to the calculation of the adjustments to the block grant; the methodology and assumptions that are used to calculate forecast tax receipts; the reconciliation process; and the use of the new borrowing powers, including the operation of the Scotland reserve.

The third issue concerns the timing of the publication of the draft budget. The committee has indicated that the reasons that are set out in the cabinet secretary’s letter of 23 June—which predates the Brexit result—would not have been sufficient to justify delaying the publication of the draft budget until after the autumn statement. One of the key challenges of the budget review group will be identifying an optimum time for the publication of the draft budget that can address both the relative accuracy of the numbers and the time that is available for scrutiny.

The final issue is the fact that the review of the budget process offers a real opportunity to improve financial scrutiny. In particular, the committee is keen to develop the move towards a more outcomes-based approach to budget scrutiny, which our predecessor committee began during the last session. That should involve much more scrutiny of the impact and effectiveness of how public bodies are spending public money before considering how it should be spent in future years. It should also result in an all-year-round approach to financial scrutiny and far better linkage between the audit and budgetary functions. However, the committee has made it clear that that new approach should not be viewed as a replacement for scrutiny of the draft budget document.

As I approach the end of my speech, it is appropriate for me to comment on some of the things that have been said during the debate. Some members—perhaps out of frustration—strayed into discussing the budget itself. Given today’s notification that publication of the draft budget is still some 10 weeks away, that frustration is understandable.

Other members chose to demonstrate the level of tolerance that the committee has shown towards the cabinet secretary. Patrick Harvie, in particular, set out the fact that the committee and the Parliament have much to be concerned about. In the simplest terms, the committee has offered the cabinet secretary a compromise, and it appears—at the moment, at least—that the cabinet secretary has not yet accepted that compromise. As we go forward, it is vital to understand that, if a compromise is possible, it must be reached quickly, because the worst possible outcome would be for the present stand-off to continue until 15 December and for the draft budget to be published with our having made no progress in advance.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-01788, in the name of Bruce Crawford, on the timetable for the Scottish Government’s draft budget 2017-18...
Bruce Crawford (Stirling) (SNP) SNP
This is my maiden speech as convener of the Finance and Constitution Committee. I can safely say that I have had a steep learning curve over the past month. ...
The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and the Constitution (Derek Mackay) SNP
I welcome Bruce Crawford to his position as convener of the Finance and Constitution Committee and very much agree with him about the joint approach that we ...
James Kelly (Glasgow) (Lab) Lab
The Government has a £30 billion budget. The cabinet secretary heard Bruce Crawford say that the Fraser of Allander institute reckoned that the variable coul...
Derek Mackay SNP
That relates to the point about uncertainty. I am uncertain about what the chancellor might do. I do not think that even he has clarity about what he might d...
Patrick Harvie (Glasgow) (Green) Green
Will the cabinet secretary take an intervention?
Derek Mackay SNP
I am afraid that I do not have time. That was also covered in the letter from the Finance Committee, which stated: “the resulting economic and fiscal uncer...
Patrick Harvie Green
Will the cabinet secretary give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Please sit down, Mr Harvie—the cabinet secretary is not giving way.
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
He has plenty of time.
Derek Mackay SNP
I will make further progress, and then I will take an intervention. The changes over the next few years will take us to a position in which more than 50 per...
Patrick Harvie Green
I am grateful to the cabinet secretary for giving way. He knows very well that the committee looked at the letter from him at the beginning of September and ...
Derek Mackay SNP
I have said to members in the chamber that I will honour the commitment that was given to the Finance Committee on sharing as much information as I possibly ...
Murdo Fraser (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I start by thanking the committee convener, Bruce Crawford, for setting out the committee’s position very fairly in his opening speech. As someone who is not...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Murdo Fraser Con
If the former finance secretary wants to intervene, I will listen to what he has to say.
John Swinney SNP
I have a simple point to make. The budget process was delayed this year for the same reason that it was delayed last year: the delay to the UK autumn stateme...
Murdo Fraser Con
Perhaps if Mr Swinney was still finance secretary, he would treat the Finance and Constitution Committee with a bit more respect than his successor seems to....
Bruce Crawford SNP
Will the member give way?
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
The member is in his last minute.
Murdo Fraser Con
I am sorry, Mr Crawford. That is in the context of an underspend that was revealed in the latest Audit Scotland report on the Government’s consolidated acco...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Setting a budget is this Parliament’s most important responsibility. The budget determines how much money is available to spend on the national health servic...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I gave the member a bit of leeway, but the debate is about scheduling and timetabling. I expect that we might wander a little, but members should keep a look...
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
Judging by the Conservative Party conference yesterday, we are all in for a treat, as Mr Hammond takes us for a rollercoaster ride. After all, he and Ms May ...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Given that the member quotes the Fraser of Allander institute, does she agree with its point that “the role of Parliament and civic Scotland in scrutinising...
Kate Forbes SNP
Precisely. I agree with that, but scrutiny should be judged not solely by the number of weeks but by the focused attention to the budget. The cabinet secreta...
Graham Simpson (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
The Parliament has been criticised in the past for its poor standard of scrutiny—that was certainly lacking before the current session. Governments do not te...
Stuart McMillan (Greenock and Inverclyde) (SNP) SNP
Will the member give way?
Graham Simpson Con
No. For Derek Mackay to give the subject committees two weeks in which to scrutinise his draft budget is frankly ridiculous and unacceptable. We can see how...
Derek Mackay SNP
What does Graham Simpson make of the Northern Ireland Executive delaying its budget until after the chancellor’s autumn statement?