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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 15 September 2016

15 Sep 2016 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Domestic Abuse Law
Finnie, John Green Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

The Scottish Green Party welcomes the proposed bill. Tackling domestic abuse is, rightly, a priority for the criminal justice system, for society and for those who are affected by such abuse—the victims, who are overwhelmingly female, and their children. If we get the legislation right, we will go some way towards addressing gender-based violence and a little way towards addressing gender-based inequality.

It is not my gender that is suffering that inequality. For too long in our male-dominated society, the issue was not discussed, and I welcome the fact that we are now having discussions out in the open, particularly about the complex area of psychological abuse and coercive control.

Societal action is required, too. Action can bring many challenges and confrontations with certain groups in society, and it can also bring geographic challenges. I would say nothing that would identify an individual case, but I dealt with a victim of appalling psychological abuse and coercive control whose male partner was regarded as a highly respected member of their rural community and, very alarmingly, was someone to whom victims might turn. There are particular challenges for rural communities that we need to be conscious of.

It is important that we move the discussion forward on an informed basis, and it is important to say that the behaviour that we are discussing is not restricted to one socioeconomic group but is present across society.

I am grateful for the various briefings that we have received, such as the one from Scottish Women’s Aid. A number of members have talked about the pivotal role that that organisation has played in progressing the agenda and the informed background that it can bring to our discussion.

Mention has been made of the Abusive Behaviour and Sexual Harm (Scotland) Act 2016, which my colleague Margaret Mitchell and I, among others, were responsible for scrutinising in the previous parliamentary session. During that scrutiny, we took evidence in private from a woman who lived in a state of fear and alarm—essentially, a state of psychological siege—in her own home. It was an appalling situation. That woman was extremely grateful to the police for their diligent investigations, their support and their thorough work. Her partner continually breached bail. He was banned from her home but often, when she returned home from being out, he would be in the vicinity. The system failed her and her children.

If we are going to get this right, we need good law. The Law Society has talked about the need for certainty in law—Gordon Lindhurst made an extremely helpful contribution in that regard—and Margaret Mitchell talked about the complexity that exists. We are seeking to deal with a much more complex set of circumstances.

The perpetrators of such behaviour are highly manipulative, which is why there is no role for mediation, although there can be a role for advocacy for the victims. Scottish Women’s Aid talks about understanding the dynamics and the impact, and about the important role of training for decision makers throughout the system.

In respect of getting it right for every child, many members have talked about the children who are involved in domestic abuse cases, and the cabinet secretary talked about recognising the impact on children. It is vital that children’s needs are met. I know that there have been preliminary discussions about the Nordic model of noting statements from child victims in an agreed manner, which means that there might be no need for them to be at court, and certainly no need for them to be cross-examined. There is potential in that model, and I hope that it can be followed up. Indeed, with new personnel in place, it might be possible that the only things challenged in court will be the facts under dispute.

Members have talked about domestic abuse courts. The Green Party will support Claire Baker’s amendment, which mentions their role. Along with Ross-shire Women’s Aid, I have been involved for a while in discussions with the sheriff principal about such courts. Kate Forbes suggested some sort of roving role for domestic abuse courts. The public may think that that is about new buildings, but it is about case management and the opportunity to bring professionals together. That is important, because it would build up judicial expertise. Furthermore, a sufficient cohort of cases would make that a very practical approach.

Members have talked about the vital issue of funding. I acknowledge the £20 million that the Scottish Government put in, but if we are really committed to dealing with the issue, we cannot have all the various groups lobbying us because they have no certainty about their future. It is important to consider that that might mean a different source of funding or a different way of looking at funding.

Legal support is an important issue. In the case that I alluded to, because of the geography and a number of other reasons, the appropriate legal support was hard to get. We need to look at that.

Although it is unpalatable to some, we must look at the statutory defence and the legal burden on the accused. The Law Society reminds us of the presumption of innocence and the obligation on the prosecution to prove the guilt of the accused, and proposes an amendment to the statutory defence. According to my information, a number of proposed amendments have come in. Ross-shire Women’s Aid, for instance, suggests that the statutory defence is open to manipulation by perpetrators and that there will be frailties around it in connection with women with disabilities where the abuser is a carer. Furthermore, it does not fully cover behaviour that is directed at children, pets or property. There is also a clear view that the penalties are not sufficient. Once again, there is talk of non-harassment orders. The link between the criminal and the civil is very important.

This is about gender violence and inequality. As a member of the Justice Committee, I look forward to thoroughly scrutinising the bill to ensure that we get good law in place.

15:53  

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-01434, in the name of Michael Matheson, on domestic abuse law. From the outset, I inform members that—wa...
The Cabinet Secretary for Justice (Michael Matheson) SNP
Domestic abuse blights the lives of too many people in Scotland. It might not be obvious because, in contrast with many other forms of crime, it is largely h...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Douglas Ross to speak to and move amendment S5M-01434.1. Mr Ross, nine minutes please. 14:44
Douglas Ross (Highlands and Islands) (Con) Con
I am pleased to open for the Scottish Conservatives in the debate on the Scottish Government’s proposal to introduce a criminal offence of domestic abuse. Si...
The Minister for Community Safety and Legal Affairs (Annabelle Ewing) SNP
Will the member take an intervention on that point?
Douglas Ross Con
I am sorry, I have two and a half minutes.
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I can give you the time back if you want to take the intervention.
Douglas Ross Con
I will come back to it if I have time, but I have quite a bit to get through. Interruption. I was asking about the Crown Agent, if that helps the minister. ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Thank you—you moved your amendment just before I asked you to do so. I call Claire Baker to speak to amendment S5M-01434.2—you have seven minutes, Ms Baker. ...
Claire Baker (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Lab) Lab
The year 2016 marks 40 years since the establishment of Scottish Women’s Aid, which brought together a network of local organisations across the country. Loc...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
My apologies to Ms Baker: I was giving my signals and she was due seven minutes. I will need to get my glasses on more often. We move to the open debate. 15:00
Kate Forbes (Skye, Lochaber and Badenoch) (SNP) SNP
I address every individual in Scotland today whose home is a torture chamber, who conceals physical and psychological scars and who lives in fear of a tyrant...
Margaret Mitchell (Central Scotland) (Con) Con
When I was first elected to the Parliament, in 2003, one of the first debates in which I spoke was on domestic abuse. I referred to a song by Charlie Rich th...
Fulton MacGregor (Coatbridge and Chryston) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the proposed legislation and believe that it is a huge step on the way to tackling the true nature of domestic abuse. As many other members have sa...
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I am grateful for the opportunity to debate domestic abuse and how we improve the legislation to better protect victims. It was disappointing that the Scotti...
Christina McKelvie (Hamilton, Larkhall and Stonehouse) (SNP) SNP
I think that the phrase “domestic abuse” has become a bit of a fig leaf. Society has pulled a veil over the reality so that it does not upset us too much or ...
Gordon Lindhurst (Lothian) (Con) Con
We no doubt all agree that domestic abuse that is carried out against anyone for any reason is wrong. People who carry out domestic abuse give love a bad nam...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
Please, Mr Lindhurst.
Gordon Lindhurst Con
I have made my point. We need to remember that, when it comes to statute, it is not enough to say “a rose By any other name would smell as sweet”. Languag...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Please close now, Mr Lindhurst.
Gordon Lindhurst Con
If we fail to get it right, the Parliament will give law a bad name. 15:35
Gil Paterson (Clydebank and Milngavie) (SNP) SNP
This Parliament—and indeed Scotland—can be proud that in nearly every session since the Parliament was reconvened, domestic abuse in its different forms has ...
Monica Lennon (Central Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I welcome the motion in Michael Matheson’s name and I am encouraged that the Scottish Government is committed to tackling domestic abuse as part of a wider s...
John Finnie (Highlands and Islands) (Green) Green
The Scottish Green Party welcomes the proposed bill. Tackling domestic abuse is, rightly, a priority for the criminal justice system, for society and for tho...
Rona Mackay (Strathkelvin and Bearsden) (SNP) SNP
This is a debate that I sincerely wish that we were not having. Domestic abuse is repugnant on every level, which is why I am pleased that the Scottish Gover...
Annie Wells (Glasgow) (Con) Con
There is no doubt that everybody deserves protection from an abusive partner, and I welcome the Scottish Government’s commitment to enacting and enforcing a ...
Ruth Maguire (Cunninghame South) (SNP) SNP
I welcome the opportunity to speak in this debate and I commend the Scottish Government and Parliament for their commitment to improving how the justice syst...
Kezia Dugdale (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
When I speak to journalists outwith Scotland, the first question they often ask is about what it is like to be in a Parliament in which three of the parties ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Christine Grahame) SNP
It is refreshing to hear somebody speaking who does not normally get a turn in debates. 16:16
Richard Lyle (Uddingston and Bellshill) (SNP) SNP
What is domestic abuse? For many, the initial thought is that it is physical abuse or even sexual abuse; yet, for many abuse victims, it can be emotional, me...