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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 08 June 2016

08 Jun 2016 · S5 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Named Person Policy

I am not the minister with responsibility for the policy, but it is clear that it would be wrong to have three named people for any individual in such circumstances. I am sure that the member can address his question to the responsible ministers.

There is a significant burden on health visitors and schools. The Government needs to reflect on the scale of what it is asking of already overworked people. In a large secondary school, a deputy headteacher or pupil support teachers will be the named person for hundreds of pupils. As a number of members have said, most pupils will not need that—or any—attention, but some will. Does having the proposed scale of risk indicators help? I want the Government to reflect on that.

On money, my amendment reflects the fact that many public bodies have concerns about the policy’s costs, which were raised when the Children and Young People (Scotland) Bill was considered some time back and were in the Finance Committee’s observations on the bill. A number of organisations have highlighted the need for adequate resources. I trust that the Government now accepts that need, and it is why Parliament expects the cabinet secretary to set out what the implementation and on-going costs will be and how they will be met.

Parents and carers should have the right to request a change of named person. The cabinet secretary’s amendment cites many charities and organisations that are in favour of the policy, but that is qualified by a strong desire on parents’ and carers’ rights. One right should be the ability to ask a headteacher or the local NHS body to change a child’s named person on the basis of a reasonable reason. I ask the Government to introduce and highlight that flexibility.

We should be honest about the fact that professionals can throw their weight around. I am not the only constituency MSP who has had to weigh up conflicting advice from professional staff on one hand and a parent’s perspective on the other. The Government needs to introduce independent scrutiny that will go hand in hand with the right of a mum or dad to change the named person.

A check and balance is right in every system and particularly in this case. People get it wrong and sometimes, rather than admit that, they cover that up—all the agencies pull together rather than accept that a mistake was made. We have all dealt with constituency cases in which that has happened.

The system must work both ways. If parents find that the response to their concern is inadequate or ignored, they will want action and help. Such an appeal is not just about guarding against interference in a child’s life that crosses a line into parental responsibility, but about cases in which professionals do not have time to make the difference that needs to be made.

Such building blocks will be important for the Government in resetting this important policy. A single point of contact is needed, but there must be checks and balances that ensure and enshrine the responsibilities of parents and carers.

I move amendment S5M-00345.1.1, to insert at end:

“; notes the concerns of health visitors, social workers and school staff concerning the resources needed to implement the Named Person policy, and calls on the Scottish Government to ensure that resources can support the effective implementation of measures for children and young people who are at risk of significant harm”.

15:44  
References in this contribution

Motions, questions or amendments mentioned by their reference code.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (Linda Fabiani) SNP
The next item of business is a debate on motion S5M-00345, in the name of Liz Smith, on education. I am speaking slowly to allow Ms Smith to get herself orga...
Liz Smith (Mid Scotland and Fife) (Con) Con
I draw members’ attention to the first line in the motion, in which I make it clear that this afternoon’s debate is not about whether members support the Sco...
The Minister for Childcare and Early Years (Mark McDonald) SNP
Liz Smith has mentioned the RCN. She will have seen the briefing that the RCN issued last night, which says that it is neither calling for the policy to be s...
Liz Smith Con
Yes, I will—I have done so already. However, the RCN is on record saying that it wants greater resources, and many people inside the RCN who have come to see...
Daniel Johnson (Edinburgh Southern) (Lab) Lab
Will the member give way?
Liz Smith Con
Let me make a little progress. Jenny Laing, of Aberdeen City Council, made a similar comment, and today, Dr Simon Knight, who is a senior youth practitioner...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Is the member aware that, on 24 March, in the House of Commons Public Bill Committee on the Investigatory Powers Bill, my colleague Joanna Cherry MP elicited...
Liz Smith Con
Mr Stevenson makes an interesting point. Let me develop the point about the named person. What is so difficult about the named person legislation is the de...
Daniel Johnson Lab
It is good to hear that the Conservatives are concerned about resources and definitions, but I thought—indeed, in recent articles Ruth Davidson has said—that...
Liz Smith Con
Nothing has changed. We remain completely opposed to the policy, but the debate—Interruption. Members can say all that they like, but as we indicate in our m...
John Mason (Glasgow Shettleston) (SNP) SNP
Will the member take an intervention?
Liz Smith Con
I will not at this stage; I have taken three interventions and I want to make some progress. The First Minister has confused the issue. She says that engage...
The Deputy First Minister and Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills (John Swinney) SNP
When the Parliament passed the Children and Young People (Scotland) Act 2014 on 19 February 2014, we recognised that a policy that had been developed and tes...
Liz Smith Con
Will the cabinet secretary outline why he thinks there is so much opposition to the policy? Within many of the professional groups—Interruption. I will not r...
John Swinney SNP
There are two issues in Liz Smith’s comment. One is the issue about workload, to which I will come. We have to take that into account, which is why my amendm...
Adam Tomkins (Glasgow) (Con) Con
Surely the difference between a GP and a named person is that a GP is there to assist, whereas a named person is there not only to assist but—behind the back...
John Swinney SNP
That intervention characterises why this debate has become what it has become—because Mr Tomkins has fuelled the absurdity of the attacks that were made on t...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
Quiet, please.
Liz Smith Con
Will the SNP be supporting the Labour amendment?
John Swinney SNP
I will be supporting my own amendment—I drafted it, so I will be voting for it. I do not think that that was a great moment of parliamentary triumph. What e...
The Deputy Presiding Officer SNP
I call Tavish Scott to speak to and move amendment S5M-00345.1.1 to amendment S5M-00345.1. 15:36
Tavish Scott (Shetland Islands) (LD) LD
Thank you, Presiding Officer, for that lengthy introduction. This morning, I read the papers on the named person policy. I am at a loss to understand why a ...
Brian Whittle (South Scotland) (Con) Con
I declare an interest as a member of the west of Scotland National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children board. We are speaking to practicality ...
Tavish Scott LD
I am not the minister with responsibility for the policy, but it is clear that it would be wrong to have three named people for any individual in such circum...
Iain Gray (East Lothian) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour supported the principle of the named person scheme when it was legislated for, and we continue to believe that, implemented properly and prop...
Liz Smith Con
I am sure that Iain Gray will acknowledge that other professionals—people in Unison, the EIS and the SSTA—hold a very different view of that case load.
Iain Gray Lab
That view is largely related to the resources going into their professions and the authorities for which they work generally, and I will come to that point. ...
Mark McDonald SNP
Iain Gray will be aware that the children’s commissioner was explicitly asked about that during the election campaign and said that he did not agree that the...
Iain Gray Lab
That is the suggestion that we made at the time and I would like to be consistent with it, but we are not wedded to it. I simply say that we think that there...
Liz Smith Con
Will the member give way?