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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 10 March 2016

10 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Lobbying (Scotland) Bill

I think that the bill sits in absolutely the correct place, balancing transparency and proportionality for Scottish circumstances, going back to Helen Eadie’s initial request that the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee look at the issue.

As a result of engagement with stakeholders—including the numerous meetings that I have had with them—the bill responds positively to the range of interests involved. I respect the position of members and stakeholders who have called for greater transparency. I emphasise that the Government has listened, and has strengthened the bill during the parliamentary process.

I welcome the positive contribution from the lobbying industry, which has embraced the principle of greater transparency and accepted the principles of the registration framework. I have listened to the industry’s calls for a level playing field, and I think that we have achieved that.

I have also listened to the concerns of the third and voluntary sectors. As a result, I have tried to ensure a proportionate approach to the regime by ensuring that an undue burden is not placed on smaller organisations in the sector, which do all that they can to better the lives of the people of Scotland.

I have listened to businesses through their representative bodies, which have called for a simple approach that is easy to operate and has the aim of ensuring a free and open relationship between elected members and the businesses that serve our communities. That has always been balanced against our aim of greater transparency.

I have listened to trade unions through their contributions to the Government’s consultation and the parliamentary inquiry, and in respect of the issue of widening the definition of regulated lobbying to include civil servants, which I will say more about later.

Importantly, I have listened to the public through their representations to their elected members and to me. I was clear at the outset that the regime that the bill sets up should not seek to catch individuals who are communicating on their own behalf. That was based on the important principle of retaining engagement between the Government, Parliament, constituents and members of the public.

In June 2013, when the Government announced that it would introduce a lobbying bill, we set out three underpinning principles that have guided the development of the bill. First, the Parliament has a proud reputation for its approach to openness, ease of access and accountability, and for the relationships that it has built with civic Scotland. I was clear that there should be no erosion of any of those elements.

Secondly, I was clear that the register of lobbyists should complement and not duplicate existing transparency measures and should be developed to work alongside existing frameworks that have been established in the Parliament and the Government.

Finally, the new arrangements should be proportionate and simple in their operation, and they should command broad support within and outwith the Parliament. The key words that I have consistently used are proportionality and simplicity.

Those three underpinning principles have been welcomed by members and stakeholders and are clearly reflected in the bill.

Every member who contributed to the stage 1 debate agreed that lobbying is a legitimate activity and recognised the valuable contribution that it makes to informing policy in Scotland. However, we agreed that we should seek to increase the transparency of lobbying activity, particularly in light of the further devolution of powers to the Scottish Parliament. The bill will aid existing transparency measures in a robust and coherent manner.

I have said throughout the bill’s development that I would continue to consider any potential changes to the bill, as long as the principle of proportionality was retained.

I thank members for their amendments, although I recognise there might be some disappointment at the fact that some changes were not endorsed by the committee and the Parliament. The amendments that the Government has lodged, which were agreed to, were considered carefully on the basis of the views of Parliament and stakeholders.

On a number of fronts, and particularly on the subject of written communications, I have not been assured that proposed changes would respect the principle of proportionality. Robert Cumming of PA Advocacy recently undertook his third annual advocacy survey of MSPs. His analysis of the evidence shows that most MSPs rely on direct communication with organisations by way of meetings in the first instance. That evidence supports the Government’s position that face-to-face communication is the most effective means of lobbying.

At stage 2, the committee agreed to a Government amendment to the bill that requires the Parliament to report on the operation of the legislation. It is appropriate for the Parliament to review, in the light of experience, the types of communication that are covered and other aspects of the scope of the regime. That approach will enable the Parliament to suggest changes on the basis of evidence that is founded on the practical experience of operating a lobbying register.

There are provisions in the bill that allow for the Parliament to make changes, by resolution, to operational aspects of the regime. Both provisions focus on experience and evidence gathering to inform proposals for change.

Members have consistently called for engagement with elected representatives, in particular by small organisations and businesses, to be protected, and for a regime that does not interfere with our daily engagement with our constituents. The bill will not undermine the Parliament’s strong reputation for accessibility, nor will it undermine the open Government that the First Minister committed to leading when she came to office.

That is why I lodged the amendments that related to exceptions for constituency-based activity and communications by small organisations and businesses. Amendment 21 exempted communications from organisations on their own behalf to the constituency MSP or the list MSPs for the place where the organisation carries out its business or where the individual who makes the communication on behalf of the organisation is a resident, regardless of where the meeting takes place. That amendment clearly reflected the Parliament’s wish not to interfere with the communication that we have with our constituents.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15870, in the name of Joe FitzPatrick, on the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill. 15:48
The Minister for Parliamentary Business (Joe FitzPatrick) SNP
In opening this debate, I would like to thank all members for their contributions to the development of the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill, which I hope the Parlia...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
On a scale of one to 10, at which level of transparency does the minister believe the bill sits in comparison with what happens in other jurisdictions?
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I think that the bill sits in absolutely the correct place, balancing transparency and proportionality for Scottish circumstances, going back to Helen Eadie’...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
I understand what the minister is saying, and none of us would disagree with where he is trying to get to. However, the amendment that was agreed to today me...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
We have tried to strike a balance that reflects the work of a constituency member. Certainly, if I am approached by a business that operates in my constituen...
Neil Findlay (Lothian) (Lab) Lab
I do not think that the minister believed a word of that. This is not one of the Parliament’s finest days. It is a day of mixed feelings for me. In one sens...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Prior to the bill’s introduction, ministers have recorded their meetings, which was always a means of having transparency. We are moving towards an election...
Neil Findlay Lab
The minister is going way off at a tangent. I am up for openness and transparency—the more of it that we have, the better.
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
Will the member answer my question?
Neil Findlay Lab
We will come to some of those issues in a moment. The public want to know and have a right to know what is being done in their name. They should know whethe...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
I realise that the member did not attend all the committee’s evidence sessions. If he had, he would have heard representatives of the major lobbying organisa...
Neil Findlay Lab
Excellent, but I bet that none of them put forward the nonsensical amendments that we have seen today. We are hearing about FOI exemptions being used to pre...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
For the record, I clarify that it was the late Helen Eadie who requested that the Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee pursue an inquiry.
Neil Findlay Lab
The Government also asked the current convener to host that inquiry, as the minister confirmed in the letter that he sent to me. The bill was watered down t...
Cameron Buchanan (Lothian) (Con) Con
I will begin by addressing Mr Findlay’s last point—the IOD and other groups are covered by the bill because they are big organisations. It was definitely the...
Neil Findlay Lab
From the research that I have seen, my understanding is that the IOD is not a big enough organisation to be covered, because it does not have enough employees.
Cameron Buchanan Con
It might not have enough employees, but it has members, and that is the same sort of thing. I think that we can agree that it is important to have a democra...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We move to the open debate. 16:09
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Several references to Helen Eadie have already been made in this debate, and I think that it is a mark of the affection in which she is held that only today ...
Patricia Ferguson (Glasgow Maryhill and Springburn) (Lab) Lab
I rise to speak in the debate with a feeling of dismay about the bill that we are passing today. I say that as someone who was not initially a supporter of t...
Cameron Buchanan Con
The level of transparency in our Government and its openness to the public are both crucial aspects of a healthy democracy, which makes it so important that ...
Mary Fee (West Scotland) (Lab) Lab
Scottish Labour supports the principle of a lobbying bill and the need for the introduction of legislation in this area. Despite voting for it at decision ti...
Joe FitzPatrick SNP
I welcome the fact that members have subjected the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill to close scrutiny throughout its parliamentary passage, and today has been no dif...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
That concludes the debate on the Lobbying (Scotland) Bill.