Committee
European and External Relations Committee 03 March 2016
03 Mar 2016 · S4 · European and External Relations Committee
Item of business
Human Rights
Thank you very much. I congratulate the committee on taking on the inquiry, which is extremely important and timeous, although it would obviously have been helpful at this stage if we knew what the UK Government was going to propose. The Scottish Government’s focus is firmly on the positive action that can be taken in Scotland to give further and better effect to human rights for the benefit of individuals and communities across the whole of Scotland and throughout Scottish society. That means the full range of human rights, as set out in the seven core United Nations treaties and a further eight instruments in the Council of Europe treaty system. It also means the rights in the European charter of fundamental rights, which are reflected in EU law. It is essential to be clear in the current debate that the idea of human rights encompasses much more than just the rights that are identified in the European convention on human rights, fundamentally important as those rights and the ECHR are. The Scottish Government is very clear that the poverty of ambition and regressive thinking that are evident in the debate that the UK Government has promoted should not be allowed to impose constraints or limitations on what we seek to achieve in Scotland. The UK Government’s anti-human rights agenda and proposals for a British bill of rights are an unwelcome and damaging distraction. I am struck by the fact that evidence that has been submitted to the committee and articulated by expert witnesses in the February round-table discussion reflects a widely drawn consensus. It is self-evident from the views that the committee has gathered that the UK Government’s claim to be responding to popular demand in its attempts to scale back human rights in the UK is simply not supported by the facts. In my November written submission, I argued that attempts to replace the Human Rights Act 1998 with a British bill of rights would do damage at both the domestic and international levels. Other submissions from organisations ranging from Amnesty International to the Church of Scotland have made similar points. Both the Law Society of Scotland and the Faculty of Advocates have pointed out the positive impact of the ECHR and the HRA. That beneficial effect, which has facilitated challenge and self-examination and prompted important practical changes to laws and procedures, is something that the First Minister also talked about in the human rights speeches that she gave in September and December. We have seen evidence from the Scottish Human Rights Commission and the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland that unequivocally supports the Human Rights Act 1998 and the UK adherence to the European convention on human rights. A range of expert witnesses have provided persuasive testimonies relating to both the positive benefits of current mechanisms and the significant problems and undesirable consequences that are likely to result from the UK Government’s proposals. There is no coherent or convincing case for a British bill of rights. In fact, there is very clear support, both in Scotland and elsewhere in the UK, for the retention of the Human Rights Act 1998, and for doing more to give meaningful effect to the commitments that the UK has given in signing and ratifying international human rights treaties. As I stated in my written evidence, the Scottish Government believes that it is in the best interests of Scotland—and of the UK as a whole—for the Human Rights Act 1998 to be retained and for the UK to remain fully committed to the European convention on human rights. That is a point that I have reiterated in a recent letter to the UK's Secretary of State for Justice and Lord Chancellor. Recent media reports suggest that the promised consultation paper has been delayed yet again, this time until after the EU referendum. It may be too much to hope that this further postponement is the precursor to UK ministers taking an eminently sensible and pragmatic decision to drop entirely the policy on this matter. That is a decision that we would certainly welcome. We might then expend our collective time and energy to rather more positive effect—as was pointed out by the report from the Jimmy Reid Foundation—by working to give effect to the full spectrum of civil, political, economic, social and cultural human rights that belong to everyone in our society, rather than having to defend against the UK Government’s attacks on the fundamental rights that are the necessary foundation stones of any civilised, modern democracy.
In the same item of business
The Convener
SNP
Welcome back to the meeting. Item 3 is a continuation—and almost a conclusion—of our human rights inquiry. I welcome to the committee Alex Neil, who is the C...
The Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice, Communities and Pensioners’ Rights (Alex Neil)
SNP
Absolutely. I will widen things out a wee bit to consider wider human rights issues, if that is okay.
The Convener
SNP
Absolutely. You have had the benefit of having conversations with UK ministers, who decided not to accept our invitation to come to the committee to discuss ...
Alex Neil
SNP
Thank you very much. I congratulate the committee on taking on the inquiry, which is extremely important and timeous, although it would obviously have been ...
The Convener
SNP
Thank you, cabinet secretary. You took the words out of my mouth for my first question, because I have just seen some of the stuff from the Jimmy Reid Founda...
Alex Neil
SNP
First of all, when we talk about this in the context of the EU referendum, it is very important that we make a clear distinction between the institutional fr...
Anne McTaggart
Lab
I have a few questions. I will start with the devolution settlement. Arguments have been made that the repeal of the Human Rights Act 1998 could have an impa...
Alex Neil
SNP
As I have said, the Scotland Act 1998, which set up the Parliament, had adherence to the principles and provisions of the European convention on human rights...
Anne McTaggart
Lab
Given the different human rights regimes in different parts of the UK, how would that pan out?
Alex Neil
SNP
The vast bulk of the legislation is very similar. In a lot of cases, it is identical. For obvious reasons, Northern Ireland has particular provisions and has...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
From what you said, do I take it that the UK Government, which is compliant with the European convention on human rights, already has a bill of rights?
Alex Neil
SNP
We do not know whether it has a draft ready, Jamie.
Jamie McGrigor
Con
The point that I am making is that you said that the Scotland Act 1998 is compliant with the ECHR, which means that there is a bill of human rights as such. ...
Alex Neil
SNP
There is not a bill of rights as such. We have the Human Rights Act 1998.
Jamie McGrigor
Con
It is not called a bill of rights but the fact that the UK Government is compliant with the ECHR gives the same sort of rights as a bill of rights would.
Alex Neil
SNP
We do not know that because we do not know what the UK Government proposes will be in the bill of rights. Remember that the discussion inside the Tory party ...
Jamie McGrigor
Con
All right.
Roderick Campbell
SNP
Good morning. Mindful of my interest as a member of the Faculty of Advocates, I flag up the evidence that was given to the House of Lords EU Justice Sub-comm...
Alex Neil
SNP
That issue has not cropped up in any discussions or correspondence that I have had with UK ministers. I would be very concerned if we were going to give the ...
Roderick Campbell
SNP
Indeed. Thank you. That is a very helpful answer. Obviously, a lot of human rights lawyers and activists and campaigners in the third sector are keen to exte...
Alex Neil
SNP
We are open to consideration of the extension of rights. I will give you an example. When the coalition Government came in during 2010-11, it abolished the s...
Adam Ingram
SNP
Good morning, cabinet secretary. I would like to hear your view of the critique of current human rights legislation that has been promulgated by the Conserva...
Alex Neil
SNP
Our very strong view is that we not only disagree with the UK Government’s analysis but think the opposite. Far from undermining the UK Parliament’s sovereig...
Adam Ingram
SNP
They have fellow travellers in the popular press, including the Daily Mail.
Alex Neil
SNP
Absolutely.
Adam Ingram
SNP
The other issue relates to the House of Lords sub-committee meeting to which Rod Campbell referred and at which Michael Gove emphasised two areas of concern ...
Alex Neil
SNP
First of all, as far as the armed forces are concerned, some of what has allegedly happened in Iraq raises certain human rights issues with regard to a small...
Adam Ingram
SNP
Okay. Thank you. 10:45
The Convener
SNP
Cabinet secretary, we have had a lot of evidence, including some quite detailed evidence from Michael Clancy of the Law Society of Scotland, who is always ve...
Alex Neil
SNP
The first thing is to make a distinction between human rights and human rights legislation. Human rights are universal. They transcend time, geography, ethni...