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Chamber

Meeting of the Parliament 22 March 2016

22 Mar 2016 · S4 · Meeting of the Parliament
Item of business
Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill
Grant, Rhoda Lab Highlands and Islands Watch on SPTV

I join others in paying tribute to Nanette Milne for her valedictory speech, but also for her service to the Parliament. She is always thoughtful and considered in her responses, and she is somebody whom everybody listens to. She will be greatly missed, but knowing the way that this place works, I am sure that she will be in touch and will give us the benefit of her thoughts and ideas—or, at least, those of us who hope to go forward; we may hear more valedictory speeches than we would hope to hear.

I thank the witnesses who gave evidence to the Health and Sport Committee, some of whom gave evidence in difficult circumstances. I pay tribute to them, as well as to all those who supported the committee.

The Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill tries to put safeguards in place to prevent terrible things such as the baby ashes scandal from ever happening again. However, it also makes us look at the way in which we view death. There is, of course, a temptation to take as much pressure off the bereaved person as possible. That is understandable, and even more so when the bereavement was unexpected. Because such loss feels unbearable, we seek to make decisions for people in order to make things easier.

However, that can cause problems. Very strong rituals—indeed, cultural issues—are attached to the disposal of remains, and the practice is very often bound by religious belief. Moreover, it is the last thing that we can do for a loved one, and it is therefore important that their wishes, where they have been expressed, as well as the wishes of close family are put at the heart of the process. In cases of pregnancy loss or stillbirth, the mother must be involved in decision making at a pace and at a time that show that her best interests are being taken into account.

The organisation of a funeral, an interment or a cremation is a ritual that forces people to continue through their grief, provides them with a focus and ensures that the person in question gets a fitting send-off. That can bring comfort in the long term, but if things are not done in accordance with the wishes of the bereaved, it can add to their distress. As a result, it is not only sensitivity but the provision of information and choices that is required. We have seen with the disposal of baby ashes the distress that can be caused when parents are not informed or involved. There is no way of easing that suffering; all we can do is ensure that what happened never happens again.

Under amendments that have been lodged and agreed to, matters will be put very much in the mother’s hands and no one will be allowed to make assumptions with regard to her wishes; indeed, that is where things went wrong in the past. Whatever guidance goes with the bill, it must emphasise the need to seek out and implement the wishes of the bereaved.

The Health and Sport Committee, of which I was a member, dealt with some of those very difficult issues, but the Local Government and Regeneration Committee dealt with the bill’s more contentious issues such as the siting of crematoria and their distance from housing. That is, indeed, an important issue; if a crematorium is put too close to housing, parking and noise problems for those attending it are likely to arise as well as problems with traffic congestion and disruption, which might be dangerous for the young children and families who live in the housing close by. I agree that it is only common sense to put such buildings at a reasonable distance, but as we know, common sense does not always prevail in planning decisions, and I sincerely hope that the Scottish Government does not rue the day that it removed the distance prescription from the bill.

In the same item of business

The Deputy Presiding Officer (John Scott) Con
The next item of business is a debate on motion S4M-15996, in the name of Maureen Watt, on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. Before I invite the mini...
The Cabinet Secretary for Health, Wellbeing and Sport (Shona Robison) SNP
For the purposes of rule 9.11 of the standing orders, I wish to advise the Parliament that Her Majesty, having been informed of the purport of the Burial and...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Many thanks. I call Maureen Watt to speak to and move the motion. 11:11
The Minister for Public Health (Maureen Watt) SNP
I am delighted to open the stage 3 debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill. I thank the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, the Local Gover...
Jenny Marra (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
I would like to start in the same way as the minister by thanking the Health and Sport Committee, the Local Government and Regeneration Committee and the Del...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Thank you. I call Dr Nanette Milne. Members might want to note that this is Dr Milne’s valedictory speech. On behalf of the Parliament, I would like to than...
Nanette Milne (North East Scotland) (Con) Con
Thank you very much for those kind words, Presiding Officer. Of the seven bills that the Health and Sport Committee dealt with during this session of the Pa...
The Minister for Sport, Health Improvement and Mental Health (Jamie Hepburn) SNP
No pressure, Jackson.
Nanette Milne Con
Jackson Carlaw quickly absorbed the detail of our health service, which I have lived and breathed for a long time. It has been a privilege to represent the ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
We wish you every success in the future, of course. We move to the open debate, with six-minute speeches. 11:32
Bob Doris (Glasgow) (SNP) SNP
I enjoyed Nanette Milne’s valedictory speech, although she had me googling Nanette Newman to double check that I know who that is, and I do. Unfortunately, I...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Con
Before we proceed, I should apologise to Parliament for having inadvertently misled it. I am expecting four-minute speeches in this debate, but there is quit...
Malcolm Chisholm (Edinburgh Northern and Leith) (Lab) Lab
I pay tribute to Nanette Milne for the massive contribution that she has made on health and other issues during her 13 years in the Parliament. I have enjoye...
Kevin Stewart (Aberdeen Central) (SNP) SNP
I, too, pay tribute to Dr Nanette Milne. Over the years, we have agreed, we have disagreed and we have agreed to disagree, but there has been no malice when ...
The Deputy Presiding Officer (Elaine Smith) Lab
Thank you, Mr Stewart. You actually got five minutes. 11:48
Rhoda Grant (Highlands and Islands) (Lab) Lab
I join others in paying tribute to Nanette Milne for her valedictory speech, but also for her service to the Parliament. She is always thoughtful and conside...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Is Rhoda Grant saying that she does not trust councillors to make commonsense decisions in that regard?
Rhoda Grant Lab
The next time that I hear Kevin Stewart complaining about a council planning decision, I will remind him of his words. I think that we are all aware of counc...
Stewart Stevenson (Banffshire and Buchan Coast) (SNP) SNP
Like others, I welcome the bill and anticipate its passage come decision time. Burials and cremations are, of course, a very important part of most people’s...
Lesley Brennan (North East Scotland) (Lab) Lab
As many members have said, the bill covers many sensitive topics. I have focused on funeral poverty because of my experience as a councillor and, as I mentio...
Richard Lyle (Central Scotland) (SNP) SNP
I am delighted to speak in this important debate on the Burial and Cremation (Scotland) Bill, particularly as I am a member of the Health and Sport Committee...
John Wilson (Central Scotland) (Ind) Ind
I put on record my thanks to Dr Nanette Milne for her quiet words, particularly when we served together on the Public Petitions Committee. It has always been...
The Deputy Presiding Officer Lab
We turn to closing speeches. I invite the two colleagues who have participated in the debate and are missing to return to the chamber. 12:13
Jackson Carlaw (West Scotland) (Con) Con
The bill is a contract between the Parliament and the parents who reacted with anguish, bewilderment, astonishment and dismay earlier in the parliamentary se...
Kevin Stewart SNP
Will the member give way?
Jackson Carlaw Con
I know that his contribution was well intentioned; maybe the folks—as Kevin Stewart likes to refer to them—in old Aberdeen do things differently up there. Ho...
Kevin Stewart SNP
I know that we all get upset from time to time about planning decisions. However, in sensitive cases such as the ones that we have discussed, councillors nor...
Jackson Carlaw Con
As Kevin Stewart said, councillors “normally” act wisely. That underlines the point that there must be occasions on which they do not act in that way. John W...
Jenny Marra Lab
Since I have two opportunities to speak in the debate, I will use this one to pay tribute to some of my colleagues who are leaving Parliament. As several o...
Maureen Watt SNP
I thank all members for their contribution to the debate. Throughout the bill’s progress, there has been strong support for its principles. I am grateful to...